homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation Rise of Flight - The First Great Air War This "It suddenly started juddering' thing

I was playing another game and all of a sudden I'm seeing juddering when panning around

We've been talking about stuttering in here lately so I thought to check my graphics card panel, suspecting that vsync was enabled. Was.

I never run with vsync enabled. Unless you're getting framerate >30fps, as soon as framerate drops below the magic number of 30fps allowable (on a 60Hz monitor/flatscreen) - fps cannot display 29fps when vsync is wnabled and refresh rate is 60Hz (commonly) - fps drops instantaneously to 20fps. That's around my cut-off point for immersion 18Hz. So a note while I'm testing something-

The reason that your 60Hz monitor cannot display 29fps if vsync is enabled:-

With vsync enabled, your game/application can only display integer divisors of (in this case) 60Hz

Allowable framerates (fps) on a 60Hz refresh rate monitor

60fps = 60(Hz)/1
30fps = 60/2
20fps = 60/3
15fps = 60/4 and so on, 60/5 60/6 etc

Now direct your inquiring eye dear techie-type reader to what happened to 21fps, 22fps up to 29fps <Hitchcock>

Those possible framerates are not allowed by the system. They cannot be displayed. You can see fps at 60fps, 30fps, 20fps, 15fps and so, quantised values. All other framerates are forbidden with vertical synchronisation (framerate/fps is locked to your monitor's refresh rate) enabled

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantization

There you are fighting the undead and you see juddering where once all was smooth. Check that something (in my case Nhancer naughty) has not re-enabled vsync

If you must have vsync enabled (for TIR, no tearing on panning) then enable triple-buffering (Frames After) to help smooth out framerate when vsync is enabled

Any questions

No not you at the back, the attractive girl behind the bar

Ming

http://www.europeanaf.org/forum/showthread.php?p=126967

Morecambe and Wise WB

I have vsync disabled in both nHancer and the RoF settings. Still getting the stutters/judders and it's starting to annoy me now. What bugs me is that barring this issue RoF runs so smoothly on my rig. I've made a post over at the RoF forums but so far only one other person has the same issue. I really don't want to be forced to disable FFB again, especially now I've set up some nice curves and the aircraft feel great to fly.

*sigh*

I also have this judder effect, even in IL2..I think it is related to SLI and newer drivers. I can stop the judder in IL2 by turning off sli and using just one card but that trick does not help with ROF.

The judder I get is when you pan the scenery and other objects that revolve around your point of it view judders or hesitates for a mili second. Your main object, plane, car or whatever does not, just the scene around it.

Ay oop Ming, not sure if this is just a generic statement or related to the FFB/TrackIR thang, but I can confirm my end I always use triple buffering in conjunction with Vsync, So for my particular problem it aint that.

On your Vid ming, it looks to me that you are using very high "smoothing" settings in your trackir settings? Can you confirm if you are? (I'd guess by looking 70+, but you may just move slowly lol, its hard to tell )

I have tried the Trackir4 37 (latest) build with higher smoothing but no joy. I tried Trackir5 drivers out a while back but I did not adjust smoothing with them. Maybe worth reinstalling and trying it (doubt it will work).

I'll post some tracks of with FFB/without panning later on hopefully so people can see what its like.

Tried Moggies suggestion of wiping out all other head commands etc, good idea as it does look like the Trackir is "fighting" against something like he said....But still no joy. Bah.

I've tried everything, all that works for me is disabling FFB. With FFB disabled TrackIR works as smoothly as it did in IL-2.

I really don't want to be forced to disable FFB again

I'm feeling yer pain Brutus mate, we have to stick together. Ditto here, great performance other than the crappy juddery panning. I'll post over there too, do you post as GBrutus there as well? Just so I can find you lol. (I'm Biggles07 same as here).

PS Aye Brutus, disabling FFB fixes it and runs very smooth. Its obviously the culprit, for whatever reason.

thats interesting I didnt know the ratio doubled like that..im not very savvy with refresh rates. I run with it on at 60zh and even with adrop of FPS to 55 I notice jitters. it was really wierd to see what looked like 20 FPS at 55 FPS...im going to disable and see what happens

Any questions?
No not you at the back, the attractive girl behind the bar
Ming

Oooo, Ooooo, I have a question. Its that your vsync enabled or are you just happy to see me?

LOL!

Really, thanks for the info, now I understand what it does.

Hi Biggles. Yes mate, I'm GBrutus on the RoF site too. Here's a link to the thread... http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=5107

i tried with vsynch off and its a terrible mess. sure the frames are great but when my prop is spinning in front of me it looks like my monitor is waving up and down like lines moving..doesnt look smooth to me at all

I just hate the tearing that VS off gives, VS on with triple buffer for me.

I was experiencing some jitter after the latest patch and after turning things off and on in the RoF setup menu I discovered that the culprit was that fullscreen mode was turned off. Turned it back on and it was smooth as cream.

Yep the unbearable tearing with vsync off reduces immersion to zero for me so I always have vsync forced on. Quality visuals all the way for me rather than obsessing compulsively over FPS. But then, it's always a balance/compromise between visuals and speed innit. And how we love it so ! We can spend months discussing it. Then leave it for a bit. Then discuss it all over again. It's beaut !

As for triple buffering, as far as my limited knowledge extends, it does not work for D3D games even if forced in Nvidia's control panel (not sure about ATI). It only works for the older opengl games. You need 3rd party applications to force triple buffering to work properly for directx games such as D3Doverrider. Strange innit.

I use both Vsync and Triple Buffering on my system as I find that it not only eliminates tearing but it also keeps the frame rates from wild fluctuations...it seems to hold them very near the LCD related 60Hz/ 60 fps with lows usually around the 40+fps mark, and this appears to be consistent. Having said that, this works for other sims, but I haven't measured frame rates in RoF since I haven't bothered with any utility to do it. I'll have to try RoF without Vsync and TB just as an experiment. With my current arrangement, though, I seem to have a nice even graphic displays with only the occasional 'hiccup' in frames.

The Nvidia control panel for my GeForce GTX260 does incorporate triple buffering for D3D apps. I think that the requirement for 3rd party apps for D3D was an issue with older cards and games but the video hw/sw has been changing slowly.

Jimko, you'll hate it if you switch vsync and triple buffering off especially if you're a trackir user As to the later nvidia cards, yes they all have the option to turn triple buffering on in control panel, but it doesn't work apparently with directx games or so I've been advised. I have a 9800gtx and force TB on via D3Doverrider (comes as an added program with rivertuna) and I can detect a slight increase in performance and visuals. I have no proof though and no benchmarking stats or stuff of that nature. So I could be wildy wrong of course. But it appears to work for me.

It would be good if one of the tech-heads who really know what they're talking about could confirm/clarify ?

I never minded the tearing - at higher fps its so quick one has to look for it.

J2 I see you have a Samsung 22in, the problem you are seeing may also be related to having RSA turned on, I get odd clouds and prop with RSA on, unfortunately you need to remember to turn it off each time you start the PC as it defaults to on.

Just wondering if those with stutters have tried disabling there sound cards to ensure it is graphics and not sound causing the problems, my gameplay since the new patch has been smooth as silk both on and offline so far.

Its that your vsync enabled or are you just happy to see me?



it looks to me that you are using very high "smoothing" settings in your trackir settings? Can you confirm if you are?

I'm sure I'm not using much smoothing Biggles, it makes the views wallow, more inertial

I found that Dragon Age has suddenly started getting slower yesterday, suspiciously because it's after a DA Steam update (it installed the same three needed-functions DirectX, C++ etc as the RoF installer) so our systems may have changed after an install/update of some other game. I'll get performance benchmarks for RoF later for comparison

Ming

Just wondering if those with stutters have tried disabling there sound cards to ensure it is graphics and not sound causing the problems

Yes same here I always recommended that Tiger to split the problem down to manageable sections in a stuttering game but in testing, RoF refused to run for me with the soundcard disabled from Device Manager

The clue for soundcard bottlenecks is stuttering-on-sounds but not otherwise

Ming

what is RSA??