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I guess the Saitek and Logitech offerings have convinced them it's time to replace the Cougar?




The Jedi Master

Competition is a good thing

Hopefully TM will produce a stick that will build on the strengths of the Cougar while learning from past shortcomings. TM has finally embraced Hall effect sensors, now they need high quality gimbals and switch housings out of the box, not imported from Australia (Uber customer #055, right here). Software is great, hardware could be as good if they do it right the first time.

Ooh, does this mean that they're going to produce a split-throttle based on the A-10's this time?

(The stick wouldn't change much, though, as it's practically identical to the F-16 design they've used since the FLCS.)

It's also about damn time they brought out a successor to the ol' Cougar. Hopefully, they'll refine the software even further, as I find it second only to CH Products' astounding Control Manager. Perhaps they'll take the opportunity to regain the programmability lead here?

Finally, from their talk of Hall sensors, it will most likely be a traditional deflecting stick, unlike my FCC-modded Cougar or the upcoming Saitek X65F. If that's the case, will it have force-feedback, or will FFB within a HOTAS still remain the exclusive realm of Logitech?

P.S.: I hope to goodness that the paint on the Warthog stays on much better than the Cougar. The paint on mine is starting to peel off pretty badly, especially after wiping it down to get the gunk off that bare human hands leave after a bit of hard dogfighting. Also, if there are rotaries, can the electrical range be the full physical range with the electrical center right where the physical detent is this time?

The A-10C doesn't have a strain guages IRL, so the stick will most likely move. Whether they will use potentionometers or HS remains to be seen...



Most of these smaller fixes have been corrected on newer serial #'s of the HOTAS Cougar lineup. My main stick has a 18,000-serial and the paint is almost entirely worn off the FLCS handle down to bare metal from top to bottom on one side of the handle. I also have a 33,000-serial stick (NIB) and it has a completely different type of paint coating on it (matte instead of glossy finish) and I'd suspect it's more "peel resistant". The antenna elev rotary has its detent in the correct place, speed brake-, and dogfight switches are also aligned out of the box on my newer serial... I know for a fact that TM has made small corrections to the HC over the years (and between various serial batches), but exactly what they are I'm not sure of. These are just my own observations between several HC I own, and I can tell you for a fact that there are some very noticable differences between the 18,000-serial and the 33,000-serial.

Another one that comes to mind is the use of Allen screws to secure the stick handle on the shaft instead of Phillips head.

Whoa, had no idea there were refinements, my stick is #2785 ... no peeling paint though, I guess my sweat isn't as acidic as others'. If it makes you feel better paint wearing off metal controls is quite normal over time, the yokes in the DC-9s I used to fly had a lot of paint wear.

Really? My Cougar's serial is 14832, which could have something to do with it. I also have an annoying issue with unreliable microstick Y-axis response that I hope they've fixed by now

I've thought about picking up a brand new Cougar and transplanting my FCC-1 into its stick base to get rid of some of the little idiosynchranies, but then Logitech and Saitek started announcing new stuff...and now Thrustmaster has this.

Your comments on new Cougars fixing the issues that fed anti-TM fanboys in HOTAS flamewars of years past makes me want to do that...but not until I see just what the heck this HOTAS Warthog is. (I really would love to have a split-throttle, though it would take away from the authenticity factor in Falcon 4.0...but even in that same title, having dedicated engine control for F-15s and such would make it worth it.)

I just hope they'll use a better gimbal system and HALL sensors this time. Don't want to order multiple parts from all over the world to get this thing right.

These were in design well before they learned of the Saitek and Logitech offerings. (I know because I was there.) I can't release further details yet as I'm under contract and NDA, but the name pretty much gives it away as to what's coming.

Nutty

Thanks Nutty!

Something tells me if it wasn't for you there'd be no Cougar nor Warthog...

Is that so? Sounds like they're taking their time to make sure they get everything right so as to not have a repeat of the early Cougar issues. (Blown throttle pots with firmware flashes, misaligned speedbrake switches, paint problems, cheap metal, cheap pots, etc.)

So, new version of Foxy? Or essentially new hardware and the same software? I know CH types like to go on about how their software can do 128 (?) flags per mode but really, has anyone exhausted the Cougar's 48?

How good would it be if the throttle (presumably split) was compatible with the Cougar and available separately? Then I could keep my lovely NXT #094

Nice. Although I was thinking of the Saitek or Logitech to complement my Cougar, now there is a third potential newcommer to think about!

Bit like buses this isn't it. Wait around (for years) for something to come along and then 3 come along at once...!

Good timing with the upcoming DCS A10 sim...

Well, whether they were spurred on by rumors of competitors' offerings or not, there's no doubt the Cougar design is aging. I have an 18000 serial model that I bought 4 years ago, and even then the Cougar wasn't a new design...in other words I can't recall when it came out!
However, I will say without reservation I preferred my FLCS/TQS w/digital chips that I'd been using for several years (after I upgraded it from the stock version I'd been using since 1995) to the Cougar, but when I gave up my SB Audigy w/gameport I had no choice but to go USB as the gameport built onto my mobo was utter crap--spikes in every axis multiple times a second. I went with the Cougar for 2 reasons--I could plug in my RCS, and the FLCS digital profiles I'd been using were easily altered to the Cougar so I had minimal downtime over switching to the CH setup. The RCS meant I saved $100 over getting replacement pedals, too.

I need something fast as I'm getting spiking now and lots of irregularities, but I want to see what this Warthog is before I choose.

I take it, James, that the NDA means you can't even tell us when it will be announced, let alone when it will be on the market.



The Jedi Master

I have a feeling that, having been singularly disappointed with the G940 (not enough buttons and programming capability and made of...'plastic' *spit*) that this is going to be an immediate purchase...and I bet I've got it in pieces within an hour as well

Hopefully there are details soon. I'm going to upgrade in the near future, if it sounds like a fight I'll wait a bit longer. If we're teased and strung along I'll make a decision without it. We don't need specifics, but an overall feature list would be nice, many are clamoring for FFB options..

If you still are on Windows XP as I am why do you not just put in your SB Audigy (or get a cheap SB Live) and disable the soundcard in Device Manager and only use the gameport? Thats what I do and I'm still using my old thrusty FLCS/TQS w/digital chips!

Edit: Just wanted to add that there are workarounds to get the gameport working also on Vista even if M$ for some reason decided to make it obsolete! I don't know if the same driver will also work with Windows 7 but if you Google for "Gameport support pack + Daniel Kawakami" you probably will find out. Personally I'm staying with Windows XP Pro until a "must have sim" forces me to update to Windows 7 or above.

/KC

Just saw this and decided to hop on over to Frugalsworld for any gleaning of information...knowing that whatever is over there has already been read over here...anyway that place is down more than a hooker during fleet week.

What is the deal with it.

Back on subject though...isn't an A-10 throttle just like the old style that TM used for the WCS setup years ago?

I still have one of the sets here in a box and I don't think it was ever used.

The WCS' appearance was similar, but it was a single axis i.e. not split. I'm guessing this will be based on the A-10C's stick, not until we know more...

As for my Audigy, one, I don't know if I recall where it is and two, I don't think I have a free PCI slot! My X Fi and my NIC take 2 of them and my video card blocks a 3rd slot.
I suppose I could try that route, but I wish someone had told me about it 4 years ago before I bought this Cougar!!


The Jedi Master

New hardware, new software.



Just add some Cougar MFDs, or GoFlight panels, or RealSimulator hardware etc. if you want more buttons and do away with needing multiple flags to squeeze multiple functions onto one button. Much as I used to love squeezing and reading through various users' logical programming, I'm gettin' too old and lazy for it all these days. It's easier now for me to press a different button or flick a switch on a panel.


Cheers

Nutty