homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation Falcon 4.0 Refueling post 1.013 patch

Boy, I'm reluctant to start a refueling thread, mainly because it is not that big an issue, but sigh, here goes:

Has anyone noticed problems with aerial refueling after patching to 1.0.13?

I had assumed (since it has been quite awhile since I tried to hook up with a tanker) that it was just my "less-than-awesome" flying skill, but I turned down the difficulty and still had problems, and finally I observed that AI pilots were not staying connected either in a couple TEs I had written.... I do need to test this a few more times, but on initial testing the AI would take a very long time to connect, and could not seem to remain connected to the boom (in the past I was always quite jealous of how the AI would just fly right up to the boom and hook up).

Tanker radio calls to the AI pilots would be something like: "Forward... Back... Forward... Connected... Disconnect.... Forward.... Down.... Back... Connected.... Disconnect..." etc., (kind of like I'm used to hearing when I try to refuel ) and the AI pilots just couldn't seem to get hooked up and stay there long enough to get any fuel.

I tested it on all refueling difficulty settings, but no dice.

Anybody else seeing the same thing (or, is it as I suspect, that I still suck after 10 years of flying this thing!) ??

Cheers and Thanks!

I took a look...seems to be ok smiplified, KC-135. Giving the AI weapons free seem to help.

Thanks, I'll keep trying. I was trying in the ODS theater, gonna try some in the Korea theater... not sure that this would make a difference at all, but worth a try.

I've also posted this over at Frugal's:

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=1515265&posted=1#post1515265

From Frugal's thread:

Thanks again for everyone who is testing this. Again, this is not a "major" gripe, but something I hope someone "in the know" will look at.

Anyway, I tried again just a few minutes ago, and made sure I was in the "vanilla" Korea theater, then ran the Training refueling mission on Easy, Simplified, and Realistic settings.

Easy: Ran this twice. You start behind tanker with about 900lbs fuel. Request fuel (Y, 1) and the "Star Wars" tractor beam grabs your aircraft. Sit back and enjoy the ride, since the game takes over your stick and throttle, opens fuel door when needed, your AI pilot talks to the tanker, etc.

Test 1: Seemed to be working ok to begin with, but then I noticed it was taking an awful long time to connect (to be fair, the tanker enters a turn right after mission starts). I ended the mission after many minutes had gone by because my fuel had dropped to 200lbs, and it did not seem like it was going to work. It seemed like the jet had gotten "stuck" just a few feet aft of where it needed to be, the tanker would call "FORWARD", the jet would move up a foot, stop. Then fall back a foot. Repeat. After several minutes of this, I ended the mission;

Test 2: Tried again. Same as above, but this time the jet was able to connect after a few minutes, but only for maybe 1-2 seconds, then the tanker calls "DISCONNECT". 5,000lbs of fuel had been transferred in the blink of an eye. Ok, so that's a little funky, but ok I guess, so lets try it "Simplified";

Simplified: As with "Easy", start behind the tanker, request fuel (Y, 1). This time you need to fly the jet, but the fuel door is still opened for you and radio comms from that point on are handled for you. Tested this once.

Test: Seems fine until you get close to tanker, then it feels as if the "Easy" tractor-beam thing is trying to help you a just a little, which actually makes your controls feel quite "jerky" as you approach the tanker. Was able to hookup fairly easily, but could not stay connected for very long. Did get a 5,000lb transfer for the very brief time I was connected. Hmmmmm. Oh well, lets try "Realistic";

Realistic: This is where you have to do everything yourself, no help from the simulation. Tested once.

Test: To my great surprise, this was actually easier for me than "Simplified". This was because the "tractor beam" does not try to help, and flying near the tanker is "smoother". But, as others have been seeing, it seems near impossible to stay connected. You get stable, connect, do not touch throttle, and "Ooops!", your dropped from the boom. I could get 1,000lbs of fuel "per stab" by the boom.

Better pilots than I need to confirm this, but I now really feel refueling is different after patch 1.0.13 for both AI and humans.

In the past I mainly flew "Simplified" (don't remember which patch versions, but pretty much "forever") because "Realistic" was pretty tough for me and as I recall, once I'd get on the boom in "Simplified" I could release throttle and stick and take a screenshot, and would stay connected for several seconds while fuel transferred, and would not get knocked off the boom (unless I jerked on stick or throttle if I recall).

Thanks again to everyone who is checking this.

Cheers.

Have only used realistic and saw no problems the other night. Since they altered the in flight refuelling (possibly 1.0.10??) its been a lot easier then it used to be - and I managed to fill up the other night fully - granted after disconnecting about 5 times - but then it was turning and I hadnt refuelled for ages.

My 3 wingies all refuelled ok after me.

What is the verdict?? Have you tried it in Korea or Balkans yet?? I haven't flown ODS in some time, but when I did last OH MY was the tanker on crack. I would recommend trying it in Korea or Balkans as the LP patches will only correct problems in those theaters. I don't think ODS is affected by the patch process, although I could be wrong.

Hi Stephanie,

I've tried the latest ODS Iraqi Freedom theater (in a TE I wrote), Korea 2010, and in the "stock" Korea theater. Have not tested Balkans. I have not re-tested since this morning (I just got home from work), but will try again tonight and over the weekend, both in the Training mission and in some TE's in the various theaters.

As I noted in my "longish" post above, refueling "works", but does not seem to work as well as "before" (the problem is it's been awhile since I refueled, and cannot remember which patch "before" actually was, lol). For me, REALISTIC is now easier to hook up in than SIMPLIFIED (because in Simplified the "tractor beam" tries to help you a little as you get close to the tanker, and makes stick inputs more jerky, Realistic stays smooth all the way in)... go figure.

I'll admit the whole thing is very, VERY subjective .... but it seems "in the past" the AI could hookup and get fuel like pro's, and in my VERY quick tests they are not doing as well... but in a Korea TE they did refuel. In ODS they could not (but I only tested once, would need to test again several times need to be sure).

Other people posting over at Frugals also "think" there may be a problem, and some think it may be intermeittent.... others say it's fine.

I think the patch is new enough that not many people have tried refueling yet, or they may be like me in that it's been a long time since they last refueled and are not positive about if it "was like this before".

I do need to test this more, especially when observing the AI refuel. I'm hoping spome of the "old hands" will take a look, because although I've been flying Falcon since "Falcon 3.0" back in the bad old days of DOS , I've never gotten really good at refueling (I swallowed my pride and usually kept refueling set to Simplified when flying a campaign). I'm hopinbg those that are better "sticks" thean I am can comment.

Thanks to all those who are testing this, and I recommend also following the same thread at Frugal's as well.

Cheers!

AFAIK nothing was done that should directly affect it.

I know that it one of the very early patches the precision for spatial location was increased. I would suspect that the theatres in AF were updated for this precision.

If this is true, the it holds that the ODS theatre (being based on Falcon4 precision) may not work properly.

You may be right Bard. I first noticed a problem trying to refuel in a TE in the updated ODS theater. But I could not reproduce the exact problem in Korea or Balkans. There seem to be occasional "hiccups" with refueling in Korea and Balkans, but not to the same degree as the problem I had observed in ODS (where AI simply could not connect at all).

I've gone back and retested ODS TE's a few times now, and even then could not reproduce the exact problem I had seen. But I think refueling is "harder" in ODS on Realistic setting than in either Korea or Balkans. Seems like the tanker jumps around a bit more, and after connecting it's harder to stay on the boom. This is pretty subjective though, and may just be me .

Thanks again to everyone for checking.

Cheers!

Too late now - but an option to tell the tanker to slow down or turn around when im runnning on fumes would be nice

On one occasion I was able to get splash of fuel to get to homeplate. However, I did have tally of a friendly AB, it was not necessary.

If your mission needs tanker you have put one in the package. Those AI ATO tankers never come into play.

Yeah, wouldn't that be cool! A single additional radio call to AWACS in addition to "Request Vector To Tanker", it could be something like "Request Tanker Assistance", and AWACS would vector the nearest tanker TOWARDS YOU! Ahhh, its nice to dream....

In an ODS TE our 4-ship flight was lower on fuel than planned coming off the target, and Home Plate was >400 miles away; it was gonna be tough to make it home. The nearest tanker was 100+ miles. Called AWACS for a vector to tanker, steered towards the tanker... at around 40 miles got a radar lock on the tanker, and noted he was on the leg of his tanker pattern that carried him directly away from us, thus we were forced to burn precious fuel catching him. I was down to 1,200 lbs when I connected, wingies about the same. We all tanked successfully and made it back to Home Plate, but it sure would have been nice if we didn't have to "run down" the tanker when low on fuel.

Cheers!

That seems to happen to me every single time I refuel...

667th has tested this heavily since hearing the first reports as Desert storm and some missions in balkans require refueling. Out of our pilots..one has had an issue of the tanker "jumping" around on him..

We did a multiplayer tanking tonight..myself and one of our training officers..smooth as silk. Not sure where the issue is coming from yet.

DK