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Originally Posted By: RedTiger
I've also heard, however, that the F-22 is second to none in ACM and BFM. How so? It can only be good at that type of thing to a point. Short of changing physics, making the plane out of some fictional alien space craft alloy, or creating some sort of anti-G bubble for the pilot, what else can you do? What exactly makes the F-22 so much more manueverable than the F-16? Can it all be chaulked up to thrust-vectoring nozzles and such?


"The true top-speed of the F-22 is largely unknown, as engine power is only one factor. The ability of the airframe to withstand the stress and heat from friction is a key factor, especially in an aircraft using as many polymers as the F-22. However, while some aircraft are faster on paper, the internal carriage of its standard combat load allows the aircraft to reach comparatively higher performance with a heavy load over other modern aircraft due to its lack of drag from external stores. It is one of only a handful of aircraft that can sustain supersonic flight without the use of afterburner augmented thrust, i.e. supercruise. The fuel usage from using afterburners greatly reduces flight time.

The F-22 is highly maneuverable, at both supersonic and subsonic speeds. The F-22's thrust vectoring nozzles allow the aircraft to turn tightly, and perform extremely high alpha (angle of attack) maneuvers such as the Herbst maneuver (or J-turn), Pugachev's Cobra,[17] and the Kulbit, though the J-Turn is more useful in combat.[17] The F-22 is also capable of maintaining a constant angle of attack of over 60�, yet still having some control of roll.[17][18] Cruise altitude is a huge factor in performance. During June 2006 exercises in Alaska, F-22 pilots routinely attributed their altitude advantage as major factor in an unblemished kill ratio.[19]

In early 2006, after an exercise involving just eight F-22s in Nevada in Nov. 2005, Lieutenant Colonel Jim Hecker, commander of the 27th Fighter Squadron (FS) at Langley AFB, Virginia, commented "We killed 33 F-15Cs and didn't suffer a single loss. They didn't see us at all."[30]

In June 2006 during Exercise Northern Edge (Alaska's largest joint military training exercise), the F-22A achieved a 144-to-zero kill-to-loss ratio against F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s simulating MiG-29 'Fulcrums', Su-30 'Flankers', and other current front line Russian aircraft, which outnumbered the F-22A 5 to 1 at times.[19][31] The small F-22 force of 12 aircraft generated 49% of the total kills for the exercise, and operated with an unprecedented reliability rate of 97%.[27]

The F-22 is also extremely difficult to defeat during dogfighting. At Red Flag 2007, RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, F-15 exchange pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron, commented that "The thing (F-22) denies your ability to put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it through the canopy. It's the most frustrated I've ever been."[32]"

Source: Wikipedia

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I really don't see it like this. in fact as far as i can see it goes like that: the F22 vs F15, F16 or F18, it is the same and even less than taking Mig-21 of the old days and set him to fight against an old Mirage. that is of course if we are talking about gun fights only. in every thing who's got to do with electronic warfare there is no doubt that the F22 is the last ward in HI-TECH weapons made by the americans.

Last edited by Supercobra; 08/17/07 09:01 PM.
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With stealth aircraft they'll rewrite air-to-air tactics. No more wingmen and no element. To maximize radar coverage, 4 F-22 will fly spread formation 50 miles apart. When one F-22 gets radar contact and the bandit will see the F-22 on his RWR, however he does not realize he is being flanked by 3 other super-cruise'n F-22's.


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Already doing similar maneuver's in AF as far as breaking up the flight to try to sneak one in. Not with a 50 mile spread, but pretty interesting nonetheless. Check out the F-22, sneakin in high, while the 3 F-22's medium are locking me up, spiking me good. (The radar lock line to the high F-22 is mine.)


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/oleAxe/F22-Manuevers-1.jpg

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@fearswl

I've read that on Wikipedia at one point before. The only thing noteworthy to my curiosity is the part about not being able to lock up the F-22 even in a visual environment.

Keep in mind that I'm referring to WVR, ACM/BFM only. There's a whole host of fun things that the F-22 allows you to do to screw-over the opposition and wipe them out. I'm talking more about F-16C vs. F-22, 15 nm separation, guns only -- just like what you might do in F4AF. Nine Gs is nine Gs is nine Gs, regardless of the plane. This will be the case until something "new" comes about.

The only thing I can think of is that with supercruise you may be able to do a WWII style boom n' zoom against the less powerful plane.


"By the way, even though I know its based on accurate data, it still pisses me off too when I'm about to gun someone and my screen starts to go black. I guess its only natural." - Pete Bonanni
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Originally Posted By: -Axe-
Already doing similar maneuver's in AF as far as breaking up the flight to try to sneak one in. Not with a 50 mile spread, but pretty interesting nonetheless. Check out the F-22, sneakin in high, while the 3 F-22's medium are locking me up, spiking me good. (The radar lock line to the high F-22 is mine.)


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/oleAxe/F22-Manuevers-1.jpg


LOL, OMG,
The LP guys must of seen the same TV show that I saw. And 50 miles, IRCC, maybe a bit much. I think it may have been 5 mile spread, just inside of visual contact with the F-22 next to each other.

Hope you didn't break right to dodge that 120 inbound. \:\)


�dreams of dragon's fire and of things that will bite...sead with one eye open gripping your E-chair tight... Exit light Enter night�.Now that�s Entertainment
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