homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation Falcon 4.0 Taking down an F22. movie made by me.

Guns only, A.I set on "ace", i'm starting from disadvanteg position. note the short R.S wich brings the doom on the F22.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGqvcBOmZEs

Nice video!

Tho I'm pretty sure this is only possible because detailed F22 specs are classified. Real world fights like these would most probably turn out the other way around.

You know, I've been thinking about this lately. Sure, in BVR the Raptor would be at an advantage. Stealth, ARH missiles, super cruise, etc. etc. etc. There probably would be no need for a dogfight.

I've also heard, however, that the F-22 is second to none in ACM and BFM. How so? It can only be good at that type of thing to a point. Short of changing physics, making the plane out of some fictional alien space craft alloy, or creating some sort of anti-G bubble for the pilot, what else can you do? What exactly makes the F-22 so much more manueverable than the F-16? Can it all be chaulked up to thrust-vectoring nozzles and such?

I really don't know if the small details of elctrical warfare [except the missiles] are being "published" by aircrafts in simulators. however, i'm sure that everything such as manuevers, limits for hights, speed, acceleration, phisical strengh, anything that can be "pruved", are being shown off. about the shooting down the F22. i want to start with that many, i mean too many, veteran simulator players have long, since this game went out to the market 2 years ago, suggested very persistently that this plane in this simulator is unbeatable. there are many F4AF dogfight videos out there but no one of theme is a vs F22 to be shot down by theme. what i'm trying to say that it is no more than a legend. one day surrfing in other simulator forum, just by a chance [i didn't payed alot of attention to it] 3 members have mentiond an american players name who is to be the only one or one of the very few to shoot down this aircraft in F4AF. i don't remember the name but they mentiond that not only he had a hell of a difficulties that he had no real pruve to that.

Actually, I remember KidVicious posting a ACMI file where he shot down an Ace F-22:

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...rue#Post2118487

I think it was a demonstration of the limitations of the AI.

Can you direct me to the video against the F22 link? he had only described a fight against an F22. where is the video?

I want to add about something wich is stimulating for years. the question of A.I. there are two things wich should be clear about it: 1. some will be better than A.I planes and some will not. as far as i see it, regarding to this game, many of theme are not. 2. i watched many gameplay movies of many good veteran players playing only 1 VS 1, using a hell of tactics and yet many of some times are being beaten by the computer flown palnes and as so, yet, they are almost laughing at A.I palnes skills. A.I is something wich had been programed for once and that is it. all you can do is to out flank him by thinking. not by accuracy or speed of excecution of acts. many programers are working very hard to build A.I simulators wich are both very smart and dinamic [not a cheap as the Mirage 2000 in LOMAC] and both accurate and very fast in exceution.

Change physics: Thrust vectoring!

Actually I don't see how the two oppose each other. BVR combat is an avionics/weapons matter, BFM is an aerodynamics/physics matter. I can't see why you can't have both.

I didn't say your couldn't have both. I'm saying that when people say that the Raptor has a huge BVR advantage, with a casual look anyone can tell why.

When people start to boast about its BFM capability, then its not so obvious. There are already planes right now that push BFM ability very far -- close to what I'd guess is humanly possible. Now the F-22 is supposed to TOP that? Ok, fair enough. But how? Is there a new G-suit that allows the pilot to pull 11 gs? Is the plane made of adamantium like Wolverine's claws and can withstand greater aerodynamic forces? Does it have phasers that can shoot at anything within 360 degrees?

Obviously I'm going overboard, but I'm hoping you can see my point. What does the F-22 have that any other plane doesn't that would make it a BFM monster (thrust vectoring is nothing new!).

Guys, i will be very glad if we will stick to the point here, the movie and what you think of it.


Thank you.

Drop into your Balkans ACMI folder. KV's F-22 ACMI Tape

Immpossible. "Not found on URL".

Simple airspeed is the trick here. As modelled in AF, the Raptor is terrible at speed recovery when sub 250 kts. Apply this to the AI taking the bird vertical at such slow speeds and it's a sitting duck. It was still a very nice gun kill though.

This "method" will work against most, if not all the AI controlled A/C in the sim. Bleed their airspeed below 250kts, and the AI is simply not "smart enough" to recover from the energy shortage. Combined with the application of the vertical "escape" (as shown in this clip), they'll give you a very nice shooting solution 99% of the time.

As far as the F-22 being "unbeatable" by most pilots in AF... true enough in BVR, but WVR is another story entirely. The Raptor will be either way too fast, or way too slow when flown by the AI. In either case, knowing the situation will give the human pilot the advantage.

One question: What executable version of AF was this shot in? The reason I ask is because the newest (1.0.12 build 70604) has the F-22 skinned, and would make a future movie all the better!

Actually, the H. scissors has two aims: 1. reduce speed as before enemy pilot will notice [and indeed it is extremlly hard to notice in time] and keep droping speed. if the enemy pilot had not noticed in time he will keep on being faster than you to it non preventable your 12 thrown. 2. as you will start the H. scissors with the high speed, with the enemy close as much as you can bring him to you just like in the movie, you will tight your turns before of him as you will go in to the F16's 430 - 300 knot speed befor loosing it all and to prevent a situation that the enemy plane is still in your 6. fast action, accuracy in execution, and ideal conditions of range and speed are key elemnts.

Actually, the H. scissors has two aims: 1. reduce speed as before enemy pilot will notice [and indeed it is extremlly hard to notice in time] and keep droping speed. if the enemy pilot had not noticed in time he will keep on being faster than you to it non preventable your 12 thrown. 2. as you will start the H. scissors with the high speed, with the enemy close as much as you can bring him to you just like in the movie, you will tight your turns before of him as you will go in to the F16's 430 - 300 knot speed befor loosing it all and to prevent a situation that the enemy plane is still in your 6. fast action, accuracy in execution, and ideal conditions of range and speed are key elemnts. and BTW, somehow it looks very straing that simulators are being programed for years and that almost no computer flown palnes that can respond well to humen players speed drop have yet being programed if the programers don't think that such a weekness is in fact somewhat realistic. because that weekness is very repeatblle. i don't want to be sound boastful but i had shot down every air supremacy fighter who acclerate better than the F16, such as the F15, EFTN, MIRAGE 2000, Mig-29 and the Su-27 - 37.

It flys up behind you without you knowing and guns you down - as 1 F-16 pilot found out during Red Flag apparently! - which may or may not be true. In F4 the F-22 can be picked up around 6 miles out on your radar - however I have found that the cheeky sod will go high or low and try to drop behind you - unless you look around and pick him up (or use padlock) he does this pretty easily.

The F-22 pilot in r/l will probably have made a big mistake to get close into an enemy with decent IR close range missiles - because nothing will dodge an AIM-9X (for example) until better IR counter measures are in place. Yes the F-22 is probably as maneuverable (probably better) than everything else - though going close range against an F-16 pilot who has the new Helmet mounted sights he ain't gonna win - unless hes got a HMS to. Even then they will still be firing missiles at each other!

So then the real knife fight can take place when theyve both parachuted to the ground.

As for why its so good against the F-16 go to f-16.net and see the thousands of threads on it over there.

And its goodbye from him:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/sittingduck23/f-22Down.jpg

Was it a missile fight? the F22 goes wierdlly down with a suden 90 deg' fall. how about a movie?

cant remember - needed to take a shot of least one of them going down - was probably a head on gun kill - after getting slightly frustrated