homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation Air Combat - General WW II CFS3 review by Luthier of IL-2Center.com

well... I guess that you didn't have the same CFS3 game that I had... just as you probably didn't have the same as the most other guys around and who noticed the same problems that I did (and who posted around here ever since CFS3 came out).

TooCool is not fond of CFS3 never has been.

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Salute!
Wolfar KG30 CO
http://wolfar.tripod.com/KG30Index.htm

Just a couple of comments:

1. I'm very glad that so few people in CFS3 community accuse me of bias. I really tried to avoid any comparisons with Il-2 and I tried to be as objective as I could.
I got involved in some early CFS3 bashing many months ago, but then it started to seem better and better from screenshots and previews - I have not said anything bad or got involved in any disucssions in quite some time. I really had high expectations for the game, especially for a member of the Il-2 community, and it's unfortunate that the game generally did not meet them.

2. All screenshots are taken with aircraft and terrain detail at 5, the rest of the settings at 2. I will go back to the review and point that out, I apologise - it should have been there.

3. I of course play ONLY with 100% realism. Maybe I should have tried it out with less realism to cover the non-hardcore simmer's experience - but in any case I'll add it to the review as well.

4. I found CFS3's FM anything but challenging. The only challenge I have is catching up to AI. I've never had any problems with spin recovery, take-offs or landings. Planes in my opinion are way too forgiving.
Notice that in my review I did not compare it to any other sim - and I won't do it now. It is certainly primitive and not realistic, with plane performance greatly deviating from real performance figures.

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Luthier
Il-2 Custom Planes
Soviet Fighter Tactics

Sorry, but I've been playing this game for 3 days in "HARD" setting and I've had only 2 spins (better said, 1 and a half, as the plane autorecovered itself without any help).

I've tried to stall the 109 without succes: you can pull the stick at 80 mph and nothing, nada. I wonder what kind of AoA I need to reach just to get the "Warning: near stall" message. Accelerated stalls seem non-existant.

EAW and CFS 1 had much better stall and spin behaviour out of the box than this game, IMHO.

actually, I had high expectations. IL2 has raised the bar quite a bit. When CFS3 was announced as "the best and brightest" I hoped we get a real competitor here, like M$ can do in hardware where the competition exists.

It wasn't to happen, and a lot of guys came here and on other forums to express that. CFS3 has some great ideas, and a big potential, providing the dev team finish the job. The problem is that the product was rushed out before reaching its finished status, leaving the community finish the job, unless M$ corrects that in a patch. Since they considered CFS2 has no need for a patch (they must the the only ones), I guess it's not very probable we get it. Wait and see...

I think Luthier is indeed very mild especially after reading his first impressions about CFS3 at the same site...

Perhaps it is growing on him (a tiny bit)? At least he did not toss it away after a couple of hours, like many seem to do.

On the FM's:
I've said it before and will say it over and over again...never, and I mean NEVER did MS produce state of the art flightmodels straight out of the box. So anybody can fly them including your pet dog.

But it is NOT the engine wich is at fault. The engine is a very complex one, and can give you highly realistic flightmodels on the same level as IL-2 and beyond that...
It takes however months to build a true accurate airfile.
It took Bruno Duffort, a dedicated airfile designer, 3 months to build an airfile for his P40...(only to find out that it flies like crap in CFS3, so he has to start all over again, but that is a different story)

So give it some time, and you will see big improvements in the FM department.

1% prototypes are allready out for you to try.

Now some of you are getting silly,
"Oh, he shouldn't have reviewed it if his system wasn't hot enough"

Vas fur Quastch ist das?

MOST of us have systems on par or BELOW his, I'm not really freaking interested in what will run on your "donated by Aliens" Sh*thot computer, I wanna know how it'll run on mine.

Oh and btw, the terrain at the target areas does look nice, Black Forest as all hell, but nice, but like the man said, go low on the way to the target, you'll wonder if you popped thru a glitch into one of your older games.

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You're right, even though I know you're wrong.

I think Luthiers review was fair, the only point is that if you can't run the game on the highest graphics settings you cannot accurately judge this area.
Anyways toocool, I did some testing with various aircraft last night. Several were very easy to stall/spin, some were several degrees harder to get to stall/spin. I never said the stock FM was great, but it is good and does support these flight modes.
Also with weapons set to normal (not strong), it took 10 to 15 hits of MG fire to effect any of my control axis. 1 to 5 cannon hits would do the same. Sounds pretty "realistic" to me.

Why is it that u rely on 1% team to make CFS3 a worthy product? They dont get paid for one.
All 1% do is give justification for MS to release incomplete buggy products.

Id rather 1% didnt exist then perhaps well start seeing a quality product in CFS4.

Better to be a beggar and dream of owning a car than to drive around in realities 3 wheel sedan, no steering wheel and mis matched panels minus window panes.

translation: As a consumer i rather see a end to CFS series than a continual blatant rip off of general public $

Funny I don't feel ripped off, I figure I'll get my $49.00 worth out of it.

Belrick:

You are absolutely right. It should not be an excuse for releasing a half finished game which CFS3 seems to be...
The community should not need to fix things, but they should be building upon things that are already in good working order.

But you are TOTALLY missing the point when it comes to the flexibility of the CFS series. THAT is the main reason why the CFS series has such a powerful following. No matter how good the original FM's are, the 1 % team will ALWAYS try to improve on them. They did that for EAW as well, and were people complaining about those original flightmodels?

And they they do it for free...
Why?
Because it's fun. A hobby. No more or less. The MSFS/CFS series gives them that hobby. And a more powerful flightmodel engine than EAW.

The same goes for all the other designers. And believe me, there are a lot of them. Closing up on the architecture of CFS3 is one of the biggest complains of the community. If you were complaining about that, you would get my vote...

When CFS3 turns out to be a failure, and it might well become that way in terms of sales, and it would be the last in the series, that would be a sincere blow to the ENTIRE flightsim community....including you...but you obviously do not seem to care.

I have already gotten my money's worth.

The key here is to keep open minded....which some of us cannot seem to accomplish.

Nothing....and I mean NOTHING is perfect out of the box.....and most of you that are out in force know this.

Problem is, you are trying like hell to believe that somthing could have been better than IL-2.....well....fact is...It is not for the, dare I say "Hardcore" if there is such a term....simmer.

I tell you what, I could not stand IL-2 when it came out. Choppy as all hell...it was a stuttering mess, but I gave it time....and it grew on me. I still enjoy it to this day.

My opinion? sure. I think CFS3 is already better than IL-2...but this is only 1 opinion of a whole community....so it means not....it only means to me.

For those that enjoy it.....Carry on. We have our hands on a real "Community" sim here.

For those that don't......Fine. For those that have not bought it yet...do not speak...until you try it for yourself.

If someone you knew only by a "virtual" callsign said "Man, this fried pig's ass sure is a bad purchase, You should not even try it"
But....You were always a HUGE fan of anything pork? Would you take his would for it?

You take my meaning? Hope so.

Do not judge this sim by what others have wrote or what you have read....try it out. Then if you are not pleased....then it will be your opinion and not someone else's.

Don't know if I strayed here...but I have been holding this one in for a while now.

Take care guys and good hunting.

Zach

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KG30*Voller
GruppeI/Kamphgeshwader30
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"Step into the shadow....46&2 just ahead of me" -Keenan

I think I will Get my $34.95 worth of gaming. before CFS4 is release . If you do not like MS CFS software do not buy it. I fear this well be the last Western front WWII flight sim we will see in a long time.So even if CFS3 is NOT all I hoped for.I'm enjoying it. And I hope them great poeple that do mods are hard at work. Because IL2 Eastern Front is not my cub of tea. No matter How hard I tired to like it.

[This message has been edited by jones07 (edited 11-05-2002).]

KG30 Voller: I was following your logic and cheering you on -- right until you introduced that 'fried pig's ass' analogy. What the heck??? Is that a real dish? I'm sure it is someplace ... but not in my virtual kitchen

Belzrik: The 1% team will crank out improved FMs irregarldless of how well the stock FM might be delivered. That's what those guys do. And everybody knows that no game has 100% perfect stock FMs (even IL-2 has its resident doubters). Besides, there will be many more plane types and versions that will be modeled by third-party developers and will need a custom FM to complete the package.

LMAO Skycat!
No not real.

Just another way to send a message....hehe

Umm, hello?

Do you guys do this pro bono, or are you on a retainer?

This is a M$ game that has major problems with DirectX, doesn't recognize M$FF joysticks, etc,etc, it's a long list,

And your response? "shh, the 1% team will fix it"

SINCE WHEN? they TWEAK FM's for Christ's sake they aren't Mr fixit,

Broken software is broken software,
broken software cynically released to the public on the assumption that we'll damn well take it, pay good money and like it, is bordering on absurd,

And broken software being fanatically defended by self appointed saviours of flightsims who apparently would by it if it looked like PONG with wings and crashed every 30 seconds,
Well that's just plain stupid,
I AM a flightsim nut, but I DO have a problem with being considered stupid.

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You're right, even though I know you're wrong.

Mr Voller...you shouldn't expect everyone to try it out personally...because quite a few people won't be able to return it.

So, better hear what people have to say, and lean on their opinions, than to not know anything at all.

It's not perfect, I have yet to find a game that is, But I'll get my monies worth out of it. I seem to remember IL2 getting many patches before most were happy with it. I'll give the CFS3 dev team a chance to make this one right. They have always fixed compatability issues, at the very least, in the past.

Well, on the subject of IL-2 and patches, I'd reprhase that to say "most were happy with the demo already". Patches have mostly been improvements, for 80% of the people they weren't really needed to make the sim stable and playable.

I'm sure M$ would score high in everyone's book by announcing that they are working on a patch. Maybe someone in a more official position can get better info (Len?)?

I don't think I will rephrase it.
Sure it was playable if you could get past the dreaded "stutter" problem.
The first few patches were mainly focused on compatability issues if I recall, along with "some" improvements. Infact both patches 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 addressed stutter issues. I was not happy with the demo, lucky for me I didn't let that stop me from buying the game or I would have missed out on that one.

CFS3 is stable and playable for me, once I took the time, as I've had to do with "every" game, to set it up properly. I have zero problems with it at the moment all graphics settings at 4 or higher.