homepage Forums Miscellaneous Naval Simulations StarForce and other sims?

I did not and do not have any issues with SF at all right now;
even CD/DVD copying works, if you know what to do and how to do it;

but then again, I absolutely hate SF for what it does and how this little piece of software defines for itself what is legal and what is not!

here in Austria, I am allowed to back up each and every CD or DVD I own for my own purposes, as long as I do not sell or hire copies for profit;
SF kills that right with regard to software-and thats why I hate SF outright!

the only two reasons for SF on my HD are SH3 and SplinterCell 3, and prolly GTR soon;

the only games I will buy in the nearer or farer future are prolly SWAT4, BoB2, GR3, CoD2 and OpF2, and if those have or will have SF I dunno and dont hope, but their purchase wont get shelved if they have SF;

but I really do hope, that a different approach to prevent piracy is taken by the industry;

best regards
BL

No, I'm not sure and that is why I'm asking Murphy what the basis of his statement is. Gotta say, though, I've been racking what little brains I have to try and account for my loss of FPS in Il2/FB/PF. Reinstalled windows, virus/spyware checks, etc. I was just getting ready to reformat hard drive and reinstall everything when I came across this thread.

jp, what are your system specs? maybe its a SF interaction with certain hardware/drivers thingy. any SF reps out there that can speak to this issue?

Ferd-

Basic, 1.8 P-IV, 768 M ram, Nvidia FX 5200, SBlive. Of course I limit some ground textures and visual distance in IL2 (keep the nice plane textures though). I haven't added stuff like the mods that add too many ships etc. but SH3 runs well too.

Run FS autostart, defrag keep my system clean and tuned up.

Hmmmm, I don't know. What is happening to me for the last couple weeks is about 45 min-1 hr into a DCG mission (60+ planes in the air), I get progressivally worse stuttering until an application crash and error that says something like "memory could not be read". I've memtested my memory, reinstalled windows, blah blah but no luck. I never had this before and I'm at a loss to explain. I think I'm going to remove SH3 and Starforce and retest. Thanks for the response.

Ferd-

Guys it's very simple. Starforce WILL screw up some peoples computer and will leave others unscathed.

Anecdotal evidence from either side will do nothing to change this fact.

Solution: crack the game before installing as to not install starforce OR don't purchase the game in the first place.

Or if you've purchased it already, please let UBIsoft know. They probably won't care though.

Has a class action suit been filed?


Not being able to make a backup has really got me perturbed. Thankfully my son is getting up there in the years now (going on 7) and he doesn't take the free frisbies off Daddy's desk anymore. But, when he was younger, he trashed several of my back up cd's.

If I didn't have a backup of Falcon 4.0 I would have lost it. I actually have gone through 3 backups that have been trashed in various ways. That would have been a huge loss for me!


This whole registry and unistalling thing has me wondering too. Right now I have no problems. I hope it will stay that way.

So, it will be interesting to see how SF develops. I guess Murphy hit the nail on the head. We'll have to see where they go with this. I hear alot of speculation but nothing definitive.

It will be nice to read Tom's report...


Guys I know how SF has a way of ruffling feathers. Please try to remember to hit the preview button before letting a tangent fly.

Nothing wrong going on now. But, time has shown we tend to get out of control with this. Just try to be civil.

Uffz Labroisse, My fps with the Black Death screen were down from 31fps to a studdering 20-21fps, all excellent settings. I just haven't played it since I've installed SH3 and tried it out....noticed a studder, and checked the fps.
31fps and smooth is what I am used to....20 and studdering is not acceptable.
Quite a dissappointment, considering this (SH3) is such a quality sim. When I bother to uninstall it, SH3 won't go back on, as I enjoy flight sims most...SH3 is just a passtime.....I'm waiting for B.O.B.... .

I'm just worried if we don't put up a squawk....this is the Copyright Protection we'll be living with for the future....not necessary, if we stand up and refuse....together.

Yes Uther ...As always...a gentle nudge is all I need...I'm playing as nice as I can. This has me really concerned, I feel they've threatened the entire flight sim market, jamming this "PacMan" quality copyright protection in the consumers face, knowing what it's doing. Oh...it's getting the job done....so would a nuclear weapon at an unruly demonstration.....but necessary???.. :rolleyes: ..I don't think so.

We're not all "Pirates" or "Donkey Kong" players.....

Edit;
My system spec's for Labroisse -
----------------------------
Lian-Li PC65b blk Alumn Case
Antec Truepower 430w PSU
ASUS P4P800 Deluxe MOBO
PIV - 3.0 GHz - 800FSB Hyperthreading
1gb of 'matched' Corsair Platinum XMS-3200LL DDR 400
128MB Radeon 9800 Pro
Santa Cruz - Turtle Beach sound card
40 GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
3.5 Floppy
19" NEC monitor
Harmon Kardon HK-395 speakers
LTB True 5.1 'surround sound' headphones
'Sony' 16xDVD/48xCD-ROM
'Lite-On' 24x10x40x CD-RW
56K PCI Modem
10/100 PCI Ethernet NIC
Windows XP Home - SP1
Logitech Cordless Optical Mouse
Direct X 9.0c
MSSWFF2
CH Pro Throttle USB
----------------------------

By the way, be prepared to edit your registry, by hand, if you "uninstall" this CraP.....cause it don't happen all by it-self.... .

And a bloody fine system it is Murph.

btw: I run a dual boot XP-XP across two drives. One of the drives is for games-only and has Starforce. Knock on silicon AOK thus far with LOMAC-FC 1.1, SHIII 1.3 and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory 1.01. But I'm no fan of SF.

Has anyone had to edit their registry yet?

If so, what had to be done? Is something like regedit or regcleaner enough to do the job?


Wasn't there a removal tool flying around the LOMAC forum that took care this?

PS Murphy, you haven't done anything wrong. I hope I didn't give you the impression that my remark was toward you or anyone else. I just don't want to see these SF discussions get nasty like they usually do.

Everyone is wondering what is happening or worse what may happen. This really does need to be discussed.

Hey Bill .
Yes, now I see why you suggested I partition my drive when setting it up....but seeing as how I only use the system for games....and I only run one at a time....I saw no need.

:rolleyes: ....NOW I do.

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It is imperative that we stick together on this one. Your system works...fine....If I didn't take the time to look around my system, I'd think it was working fine too....but it isn't.
Think about the guy who's system "doesn't" work, with this junk running on it.
Someday it may well be your turn to step in the 'oven'.... ...and they'll be nobody left to complain to.....it's how they do it.

Try to think 'now', how you'd like yourself to be remembered, when they look back on this and say..."Remember when they tried to jam STARFORCE down everyone neck in "05".....boy that was a BAD joke."

What was your stand?...."Oh I can't see where it hurt MY system at all....sure install it on all the games, fine with me"..... .

We really should learn with time.

NEWS FLASH!!!!

BoB will most certainly ship with StarForce as it's going to be released by UbiSoft and they are putting this SF on all their products as of now.

So, I wouldn't let it prevent you from playing SHIII, unless you also boycott BoB, you're gonna get stuck with it anyway!

That's not really "News".... .

The "News Flash" I'm looking for is when UBI and Starf**ked loose the law suit, and find a decent way to protect their products, while still allowing your other programs to run on your computer, as designed.

The "News Flash" I'm looking for is when EVERYONE boycotts anything with Starf**ked on it, every board, and every game.
When it becomes like aiding a Nazi when you even say the name.
When people treat it like the plague it is.
That is whats building in the community now.
Will you be cheering on the "Game Nazis"?.... lol...maybe a little salute? Not me.

If they do put that malware on a flight sim, I won't buy it, flight simming will be dead for me.
Eventually, for everyone.
The money is in the quick games, kids buy.
Sell a hundred of them, with no pirates, MR MONEY MAN is in heaven.
Flight simmers are finished.
Nobody cares, the money is flowing.

I'm hoping Starf**ked is dead by the time B.O.B. comes out. I can't believe intelligent people will tolorate that program on a good running computer.

I don't think most people understand what Starf**ked does. One program is not supposed to seek out and destroy/harm other programs. You do know what they call that type program don't you? There must be limits set, or your OS will eat itself. What happens when your DVD/RW manufacturer writes a program to "counter" Starf**ked?
Your running your system with a frikkin' VIRUS on it right now....and it's about to become a full scale battlefield.

Simply put, "StarForce" has kept me from picking up this sim. I don't need nor want the agravation. If BoBII comes with this crap as well, they will have lost a potential sale with me. If someone comes up with a crack that allows the games to be installed without this junk, then I'll think about picking them up, but not now. No way.

Murphy your in a world of your own -a personal vendetta if you will StarForce is out in quite a few games, i've already told you i own 4. It's nothing new, millions of punters around the world buy games with SF and CP on them because it's the norm!

As i said before going on about it here doesn't change *anything*, ok maybe a dozen or so peoples attitudes on this site - The industry doesn't revolve around SimHQ though
To boycot BoB is just plain silly, it was like the rants here about SH3 -it never changed ONE thing! hundreds/thousands of people on Subsim actively bought it and actively ENJOY it. We've already assumed that SH3 was a success since SH4 is already penciled in!
Games like 'GTR','Soldiers Heroes of WW2' and most importantly of all 'X-2:The Threat' were big sellers. 'X-2:The Threat' is astounding as it currently has a registered, hugely active, forum ownership of 118,726 for ONE GAME with SF on it Now that put's here into perspective! The thing that amazes me though is that they are allowing people -that registered the *original* X-2 -to remove the CD check, which is cool! But it didn't stop the forum from buying SF protected X-2 in the first place.

StarForce has a GUI in it, some demos i have installed have variables that can be used. I think that it's probably a flexible product and not 'hard wired'? Maybe half the frustration is about not understanding it or conflicts with hardware?? But it's the future for the time being.

I know this is a sim 'hang out', but it pays to open your eyes outwith here -occasionaly- to realise that your an inkdot on a sheet of A4 paper, in comparrison with the SIZE of the community of games, outwith sims, *with* things like SF on them and people that are happy bunnies.

By the way flight sims are dead.
The last i looked DID,Jane's,Empire,Rowan,DI,Microprose hadn't reformed? 'till that day happens flight sims were the '90s and always will be.

As always, if *you* aren't happy, then don't buy! But it's getting like a stuck record now...

Seems you are in your own little world to Tracer...
You seem to use the word "I" a lot...
We all know that you comp is running perfect and suffers no ill effect frome star suck...So move along nothing for you to see here but to add your worthless 2 cents..
But others do .... "maybe a dozen or so peoples attitudes on this site" BS bud !
Your pulling numbers from your bung and saying its so.
My systems are both newer setups and both have the same problems with SF installed (burners that will not see a blank cd or dvd or burn at all)....

And flight sims are not dead just in a slump...


"As always, if *you* aren't happy, then don't buy! But it's getting like a stuck record now..."

A lot like you and your fanboy know it all BS..

Knock off the personal stuff folks. This is exactly what Uther was talking about mid-page.

If you have complaints, that's understandable. If you want to have StarForce address them, put a post in my stickie at the top of the forum page and we'll do our best to get an answer, or maybe even a fix.

Otherwise, you can discuss this subject all you want, just keep it civil.

That's two warnings.

I was trying to be ironic/funny...like NOTE the smiles in my post. I understand the fury that exists when 'things' stuff up our PCs (hey the worlds on my shoulders) but all i was trying to do was broaden this into the wider perspective that it is. It doesn't just concentrate around ONE game.

@weed you don't know me? keep personal attacks to yourself.
I was talking to Murphy ok.

Sorry Tom.
Will leave out of this topic for good!

Serious Question Here:

Has anyone noticed with StarForce installed getting alot of (relatively requent) random CTDs and Windows error messages in games, especially with IE open? I am getting semi-random CTDs (most of the time with some sort of Windows error message, though sometimes without) in several games, including SH3, WWIIOL, etc. The problem seems more severe if I have IE running in the background, but even disabling it doesn't guaruntee stable play. At other times, other minor applications (such as Game Commander, TIR, or GF keys) also crash with similar random error messages. Other games (WoV, PF, Rome: TW, etc.) seem relatively or entirely unaffected by this problem.

I have run numerous virus scans, disk checks, etc., and whhile they have found and fixed some minor problems, the big problem remains unaltered. I first noticed have serious trouble with this problem with SHIII. While I have not ruled out entirely a driver, hardware, or virus as the cause, it is beginning to look like Starforce or something else related to SHIII is at fault. Has anyone else with SHIII or Starforce run into this kind of problem? If so, any known solutions?

Hello Nimits, nice system you got there..... .

I doubt anyone could tell you for sure what your problem is.....but I can tell you this;

In the past games have been "applications"....they only run when you turn them on.... ...when you need them.
With the appearance of 'Starfarce'....SH3's copyright protection now runs the minute you turn on your computer....and doesn't turn off till you shut down. Just like your video drivers....Starf**ked is installed in your 'Device Manager', among numerous other places . You do, now, see what this means to your operating system.

This opens up a whole new can of worms....which I do not wish to expose my computer to, when I wish to run something other than SH3.

Since my gaming computer does not have access to the internet, and is only running SH3 at the moment....I'll tolorate it. But when I tire of SH3, I will unload it, reformat, and never put anything with Starf**ked on it again.

And you?.........lol.......course you could go with the shepeole, and just lay down....afterall...."Everybodys doin' it nowadays"...jeez..."get with it man"..... :rolleyes: .

Allow me to quote an excerp from a post from "MarkShot" over at subsim.....he explains it much better than I;

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"Applications software provides a much more narrow and targetted functionality for performing a specific task. Text editors, word processors, spread sheets, and games fall into this category ...

One of the key concepts is that systems software is usually continuously in operation and interacting across a wide range of software that is executing on a system. Applications software tends to only be executing and interacting with other parts of the system when it is needed by the user to perform specific tasks.

Thus, a game is only loaded, executing, and interacting with the hardware and software environment when the user decides to play it. However, a video driver is continuously loaded, executing, and interacting regardless of what the user is doing with the system.

Another key concept is that improperly implemented systems software represents an exposure (potential for unwanted behavior) to the entire system. Whereas an improperly implemented application only presents any exposure when it is in fact in use. And usually the worst exposure introduced by an application should be that it fails to perform the task for which it was intended.

If not for Starforce, SH3 which is marketted as a game, would be classed as an application. However, due to Starforce and its implementation as systems software (a permanently resident and executing device driver), SH3 becomes systems software. Thus, the exposure a user has when installing any SF game is far greater than any non-SF game. Installing an SF game is on par to upgrading video or sound drivers; except that the manufacturer of those drivers seeks a tight and effective implementation of those drivers for maximum stability. The manufacturer of Starforce drivers must by their very nature seek a convoluted and difficult to reverse engineer implementation which puts these drivers in a much more suspect class of reliability than video drivers."

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So you see, in a sense, Starf**ked alters your entire operating system to function according to it's guidlines. Do you think they tested this as well as Microsoft did Windows?.....and look what they gave us... ...everyones doin' it....lol....

Well I took SHIII off and removed Starforce with removal tool. I confirmed Starforce devices were gone. After running registry cleanup tool, I couldn't identify any registry entries that were related to Starforce (anyone know of any specifically?)

And the verdict on IL2/FB/PF is.... no improvement on my FPS loss and random ctds

I don't know what to do now except reformat HD and reinstall everything. I'm going to bench after reinstall but before loading SHIII to test.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Ferd-