homepage Forums Land & Armor Combat Armor Simulations - General WWII Battle Tanks: T-34 vs. Tiger - official announcement

Excellent shots of the Tiger, many thanks for posting Rainer

Hello, sorry for the first time post.

I have been waiting for many, many years for a good tank sim to come out. One that didn�t feel like an 80s arcade game and had up-to-date graphics. Blessed be, this could potentially be my holy grail!

I have a question, though, and I�m sorry if this has been covered earlier in the thread: Will Lend-lease Shermans be playable? If so, will the 76mm armed variant be playable?

If so, I would like to throw some information out to the developers concerning the much-maligned Sherman. Most tank sims I ever play make the Sherman/ in any variant, invariably worse-off than the T-34 variants and this is flat-out wrong. For a game that is aspiring to have realistic ballistics I implore you not to make this terrible mistake, as many sources including the various works of Lorrin Rexford Bird and Robert Livingston will indicate that the 75mm M3 had greater hole-punching strength than the 76mm F-34. Similarly, the American 76mm M1 series effectively outgunned the 85mm S-53 weapon of the Soviet Army.

For a direct comparison, you need only look to Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics by Thomas L. Jentz. Within these pages it is clearly stated that the 76mm American weapon could penetrate Tiger armor a consistent 200 meters further out than the 85mm Russian weapon.

The Sherman was also, at least from the front, better protected than the T-34 vehicles. More info on this can be noted in the above listed sources as well as commanding the Red Army's Sherman Tanks: The World War II Memoirs of Hero of the Soviet Union Dmitriy Loza.

And the Germans had quite a few captured Shermans they used to good effect. Maybe it wasnt the Tanks but the tactical way they where used?

Hello Danyel,

thanks for your enthusiasm!

In the initial release, there's only the T-34 and the Tiger driveable by the player.

Maybe later, in an add-on or sequel it, will be added, but, no guarantees on that!

But we still hope to make your "Sim Dream" come true with this one...

Rainer ...

Why did you guys throw in the towel on the T 72 title ?

Kinda makes me skiddish to purchase another title from you guys since ya gave up on all things associated with T 72 and what makes a person believe that thats not gonna happen with T 34 v Tiger ?

vK

Don't really know how you mean by "you guys"... The publisher of T-72 is Battlefront.com, who's pretty much in charge of the game. The developer of T-72, "Crazy House", lost or fired their developers who went on to do different things.

TvsT is made by a completely different developer team; so the people involved are different as well. The only similarity those titles share is the Russian publisher of the game - IDDK

T-72 was not developed so closely knit with the simulation community in the background asTvsT is! And that already makes a huge difference in how the game will be perceived when it comes out...

So, I hope you have some faith ...

I think the greatest strength of the T34,s armour was that it was sloped,whereas the Shermans,except for the front was more slab sided.Tactics played a huge part in deciding a Tigers fate.In Normandy Eisenhower noted that to kill one off you had to send 5 Shermans.4 to keep it busy while the 5th snuck around the back for a rear shot.Whereas the soviets learnt in 1943 to charge at full speed in great numbers and get in close as quickly as possible.

Thanks for your swift and direct reply, Rain. I am honored and greatly appreciate it. I registered here fully expecting an uphill battle.

As far as the "5 to 1" myth, it's a myth. The side of the Tiger was actually more vulnerable to the 75mm M3 than the rear, and there was no set tactic that called for the willing sacrifice of four M4 vehicles to kill one Tiger.

The T-34s claim to fame was that it had sloped armor. Unfortunately 45@45 only comes out to 80mm effective ballistic protection, where as the late production M4A3 glacis of 63@40 came out to something close to 97mm effective protection. The sides are a different story, of course. But neither tank was going to be saved if hit by any of the common German AT guns in the side by 1943.

All in all I am greatly looking forward to this game. I'm, like, completely bouncing off the walls and stuff. I'm going to buy enough copies for all my friends and send it to each one of them if the game ever releases in North America. Though, with the T-34 vs. Tiger restriction, it's a bit of a mismatch.

Thanks Rainer for the reply to my question and I DO have faith brother believe me I do ;-)

Keep up the good work ~

vK

Facts: Tiger had to be used on wide open battlefields, his maingun holds the enemy on distance, so it was no prob to defeat more than 5 T-34 until they can open fire at a shorter range... in a city fight, ok that`S difficult, but at open field...

Couple of "artsy" wallpapers I created with "The Gimp".

This time featuring a lone Tiger from the latest pre-Alpha built...

http://halfevil.de/ww2scalemodeler/gallery/rainer_rohde/ww2-tank-sim/2006-10-14/

So what is the plot for this game?

Is it scripted missions like IL-2?
Do you create your own formations and missions like Steel Beasts?
Is it just a FPS where you just track and gun until the enemy or you are dead?
Do you stay a tank commander or do you get promoted to command several tanks?

Just wanting to know how this game story will run.

Ultimately it's going to be a mission based campaign the player can play on either the German or the Russian side.

The missions will be based around Operation Bagration in Belorussia during Summer 1944.

You can play as the commander, driver and gunner
in either the T-34 or the Tiger.

Does that mean the hull MG will be AI only?

Hello..I've been following this forum and the development of this game with great great anticipation, and from everything I see and read, it looks like its going to be one outstanding game!..I've been an avid fan of tactical sims for as long as their have been computers, tank sims especially..I remember waiting with baited breath for a year and a half for "Across the Rhine" and liked it...and played many others (anyone remember "Muzzle Velocity"?) PE and Panzer Elite SE were for me the new standard in tank sims..but of I like many others was keeping my fingers crossed someone would to a tank Sim of the calibre of T v T and with all the new directx 9.0c eye candy..this looks like the beast~~!!!
My question may be a sensitive one...I live in Russia although Im an American...and am loathe to purchase "pirated software"..however.however as anoyone who has spent any time in Russia knows..this is the norm..almost all games even before release in the originating country are available in their "pirated" format..sad to say..for two to five dollars..so my question is as follows for the Dev team and Ranier...WHEN the game is released in Russia (as I understand it will be first) will it be available as a fully liscensed product (not a cracked pirated copy) to purchase? I'd like to buy it here first..and then of course will purchase it in the states when im there on holiday and when its out..but for now..of course..I can play it here when it is realesed..so Im curious as to what "form" it will take..that is..a fully liscensed game retail that is more than five dollars?
Also..will the Russian version have an option to play the german side with enabling original "german" language commands and such..or will it all be in Russian? I'd like to think as in PE that this option would be there to enhance the playing realism..
Lastly...Im a collector of original period German uniforms...and have a small "museum"...to what extent will the uniforms of the tank crew and the panzer grenadiers be realistically replicated/skinned? I know for me...personally.and for many hard core FPS (medal of honor) for expample...the original out of the box skins were dreadful..I provided full high res scans of my mannequins with authentic tank/(ss and army) and regular ground forces (ss and army) for skinning by JoJImbo when he did his add ons for the original medal of honor.and the mixture of camo an d wool uniforms was fantastic and added to the game immensly...Call of Duty 2 is very very good game but ther skins of the germans is appalling..the "caen" scenario is all wrong..the battles at caen were largely soldiers of the Waffen SS and particularly the 12 SS panzer division Hitlerjugend..and the game with its mixture of regular "wehrmancht" and spanish blue division skins rather bad...
Hence..my next question..what forces for the german army in particular took part in this battle..standard army (Heer) or Waffen SS? In either case.if you would like..I can provide detailed photos from my collection of original uniforms..both field grey, for stug units..black panzer..aplinter pattern camo (for field made Panzer jackets/pants) and also the whole assortment of SS camo.(oak A, B..blurred edge..etc etc) and the heavily used SS "dot pattern" (erbsen tarnmuster)..I think if particular attention is paid to this aspect of the game (since its apparent its done correctly with the tank in and out) the game will be more complete...historicaly accurate..and more authentic. As in Red Orchestra..the game is fantastic..howver.I cant believe the dev team would pay so little attention (in a largely ground soldier "landser" sim to overlook the correct skinning of the unifors of the various regiments/forces which fought there..so I hope the dev team here will pay as much attention to this aspect and not have all the soldiers running around in a grey drab uniform with no details..or the panzer commanders just in a black skin lacking proper details.just my thoughts..andIm sure I'll be buying the russian version here when released and TWO US versions..so I'll certainly contribute my $$$ to this game and later add ons as it looks like all I've ever wanted in a tank sim..and for me thats a pretty tall order~~

is this going to be lone tiger vs horde of t-34, or is there any formations, wingmen, and possibly other platoons available for control?
taking up battle positions in rolling terrain?
manouvering towards enemy flanks behind hills and towns?

Scott,

many thanks for your interest in TvsT.

-- The game will be availabe as a fully licensed game in Russia first, then later internationally. About the pricing in Russia - you better ask IDDK about that. http://games.iddk.ru - maybe there's some contact info..

-- About German language: we have 2 Germans currently on the team (myself and another community member). We're recording German voices for the game at the moment..

-- About the uniforms: right now, we're in gameplay testing/adjusting and additional things like "better" uniforms are on the list, but we're not there yet. We've bombarded the devs with historical references, so I am sure they will spend some time with improving the details later...

-- About the units in the game: I am not sure as to how deep the developers go into this, but with the support of the hardcore PE guys helping out, I am sure there will be a satisfying solution for everyone..



Cheers

PS: What brings you to Moscow, if I may ask? You work there? How's life there for a "westerner"? I am very curious about that!

Nope.. it's not going to be a Tiger "shoot 'em up". It's going to be a simulation. About how far the controlling of other units goes, it's not decided yet....

You can shoot the hull MG yourself.

Hallo Ranier! Vielen dank fuer die Nachrichten...freut mich sehr zu hoeren..dass ich T vs T hier kaufen kann im Original "format"..und nicht so zu sagen..unter den Tisch! Ich bin Anwalt..aber bin hier nicht als Anwalt beschaeftigt..gott sei dank! Ich wohne eigentlich im Petersburg..ehemalige Leningrad..ein ganz schoene Stadt, Moskau waere mir hin und wieder lieber..aber ziemlich gross..und die Leute sind ziemlich unhoeflich. Eigentlich waere ich am liebsten im Wien oder Muenchen leben...und suche jetzt eine Wohnung im Wien. Eigentlich ist es ziemlich gemutlich hier zu leben, mann kann schon alles finden..im wirklich jeden Bereich, aber..Original DVD oder PC Spiele sind uberhaupt nicht zu finden, jedenfalls gelingt es mir noch nicht, deswegen die Frage nach T vs. T als Original Kopie, und nich nachgemacht. Ich zahle gerne 40-50 dollar fuer das Original Spiel, und..ich vermute, die Russen, die ein erstklassiges PC leisten koennen..wurden es auch tun, aber die meisten koennen sowas uberhaupt nicht leisten..deswegen die billige Faelschungen sind nur zu finden. Ich wurde auch gerne wissen..wo uberhaupt ich T vs T hier kaufen wurde, im welchen Geschaefte, aber vielleicht wird das nur spaeter herausgegeben, jedenfalls, freue ich mich riesig auf dieses Sim..nochmals vielen dank, alles bestens..mfg..Scott