homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation European Air War Users of Win 7 Op-Sys

Recently I discovered: https://www.sevenforums.com/forum.php I'm doing some reading there, and apparently there is some valuable information to be had as to upgrading the platform to more-or-less "modern" standards, as well as possible internal security platform (MS Defender< Microsoft Security Essentials) as well as a host of other tweaks.

I'll be reading a lot and asking questions later.

My initial concerns with Win 7 Pro are (1) Some sort of reasonable internet security, and (2) A modern and supported browser, hopefully with some built-in security/privacy safeguards. Both features, originally from Microsoft are no longer supported, nor is Win 7 itself. OTOH, when manually interrogating for MS updates, the occasional Security Update comes through. Same for Win 10--also "unsupported".

Getting most vintage games to run on my Win 7 Pro System is not usually a problem. Dell Optiplex 760 desktop has 16 Gb RAM, Intel Core Duo CPU (kinda lame, but the best available at the time), 1Tb SSD, and the most powerful single-slot Nvidia Gfx card that will fit.

Side note: There are some decent, modern, and supported browsers available for Win 7 and other currently non-supported Win Op-Sys, both previous to Win 7, and subsequent to Win 7. It also appears that there may be some decent Security programs available. MSE, mentioned above, being amongst them.

General suggestion is that if you are using a "Vintage" Op-Sys, like XP/Vista/Win 8, Win 10 and so forth is to scour the internet for a decent site/forum devoted to that Op-Sys. Find out what is possible/reasonable and go from there.

Seven Forums reminds me a bit of this forum, in that the folks there are doing their best to keep a "vintage" product viable still. Same thing with Ten Forums.

I keep an XP system alive but isolated from the internet because of security concerns.

From what I understand, having watched YouTube video of result of connecting Win XP to internet, sounds wise.

Some of the forums mentioned here may be of interest to you, if you haven't already visited them: https://forums.feedspot.com/windows_xp_forums/

I do that too.

My WinME desktop is from 2000 and still works great for EAW which is the only game still being played from app 300 I own. All my newer machines were needed to do my purchases and make doctors appointments, which became more difficult with every passing day due to security issues. So I now have 8 old and obsolete but still working machines with Windows 95 and all later OpSys's, plus a laptop, an Android tablet and an Android phone to experiment with and which have no further use then having to recharge them. Undoubtedly there are millions of useful apps and games for them but if they can't run EAW they're useless to me besides doing my shopping and Googling for health advice and longevity. Thx for the heads up anyway, perhaps some day I can control my pacemaker with them but all I really need is to keep playing my game. Total cost to remain connected is well over 25.000$ without subscription fees, that's 1000$ a year. Not sure if it was at all worth it but at least I can still play European Air War. Dang, empty battery, S!

VonBeerhofen

I have been using Win7 for several years with no problems re-playing EAW. My GameRanger folder is on my Win 7 drive

Do you still receive the occasional Win 7 Pro Security Update from Microsoft? I have found it sometimes necessary to manually select "Windows Update" in Win 7 Pro system, wait for it to resolve, and toggle it a second time. Occasionally downloads appear on second interrogation. @MrJelly

Even if downloads are successfully installed, I toggle "Update" again. More than once have official updates appeared. It may be that some updates need be installed as prerequisites for later updates.

I have also found it very useful to directly interrogate Computer/MoBo Mfrs, CPU chip Mfrs, as well as Gfx card Mfrs, if discrete Gfx card present. These folks will supply updates for their products.

Microsoft is generally OK with updating their products, as well as computers in which their OpSys were originally installed. I have found, on more than one occasion, that interrogating other entities, such as Intel and Dell (in my case), will provide useful updates not offered by MS "Windows Update". My elderly Windows 10 Pro laptops both allowed Intel to update their BIOS, as well as some other smaller stuff. Windows Update never offered the BIOS updates.

#%&*$# sorry to hear of your plight, and the expense incurred. In private, I may be able to offer some individual help, perhaps allowing sale or responsible trashing of old components. Your being in a "furrin" country does not help the situation but will try to help--in private. One thing may be to add-in HDDS/SDDs from exiting computers into a computer with sufficient internal wiring to accommodate multiple independent drives. I've done this myself, even though some say impossible.

In any event; all possible kindest regards, and please do not fail to contact me privately if you wish.

ETA: Given recent worldwide changes in RAM and SSD prices, your old computer components might be worth more than you think; Recent changes in component prices have rocked the computer world, as well as the modern practice of soldering-in components into the MoBo of many computers, especially including lightweight laptops Many of these components were formerly user-upgradable at scant cost.. This soldered-in practice makes upgrading most modern laptops impossible. Might also be worth considering migrating some formerly inexpensive components in some computers into compatible computers. IOW, maximizing what you have with components on-hand, and discarding useless carcasses responsibly.

Take a look at modern listings of used computers exactly like yours and see how the market has changed. Your old computers might be worth more than you think.

I am actively interrogating folks on https://www.sevenforums.com/ and https://www.tenforums.com/tenforums concerning de-bloating both OS.

Jury not "in" but Win 7 is simpler to de-bloat than Win 10. Win 11 is far more problematic than Win 10.

I use that ten forum for help too. The tutorial section is great.


https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/

Assuming one is still enrolled for Win 10 Extended Security Updates (and why not, since it's free?) Latest MS Win 10 Update was a huge one. My (possibly imperfect info) is that MS put some dedicated AI to work on Win 11 and Win 10 OS and security flaws, and the resulting list of fixes was about 500. Some internet folks say that Win 10 actually received some unexpected structural patches.

Folks who have de-bloated Win 10 and/or Win 11 may wish to review their settings.

FWIW, I'm still receiving the occasional manually interrogated Win 7 Security Update from MS. Sevenforums for links to sites providing any/all Win 7 Patches and Updates.

Well Win10 for some will still get Security Updates till Oct 2027.

It's free I think for people who share telemetry and sysnc there Windows settings with them with Microsoft.

It's unknown to me what they recently patched. I didn't really check what that last big update did.

W10 user here. Just received notification from MS that updates will continue for another year to October 2027.

I thought they would do that once they had the main rush of users to W11. Not everyone can afford to trash their existing machines because they can't run W11.

My guess is that they will continue to support W10 beyond October 2027.

Yeah I already know I can't use Win11 fully on this "old" Win7 now Win10 computer. Its nearly 15+years old, some components are 10 years old.
I'm use IDE drives mixed with SATA 3GB transfer and 8megs of memory , with USB HDDs for backup. oh and a thumb drive to give me 2gigs of supportive readyboost. lol

I could probably force a Win11 install, but what's the point if the new features and security isn't full supported on my old system.
I may get a new computer just for that reason, but not now.....

We have two W10 machines here, and an XP machine which I now keep off the grid.

The W10 machines were both in their time fairly high spec for Krys graphic and photo work, but both have failed W11 checkouts. As they both still do the basic job we bought them for, we don't intend to replace them unless and until we absolutely have to.

I have an XP machine, but I don't really use it. It goes online still. As long as someone makes a XP compat web browser.

I updated that machine about 8 years ago with 4 gigs of ram (only 31/2 is usable.) the ram I got brand new by some company that still made it.
I updated the CPU, its nice and fast now. 2.6 maybe Hyper threading.
I changed out the cdrom for a dvd writer, bought a special weird cable that allows a 2nd hard drive on the same line as the dvd writer.
Added a period nvida video card, not top of the line, not much room in the case or on the MB for a large vidcard.
Also put even more usb ports in, but I really think it has enough. i didn't put a added sound card in cause the vid card has so little room to cool down.
oh it has two smaller wide screen monitors.

Overall I want to sell it for the cost of the parts i bought, about 300 dollars without XP type of CD or DVD games.


Here's a question, do you remember why or what was not compt on your win10 machines for win11?
Mine, it doesn't have and secure boot or that other motherboard security, and I think the cpu is no good for Win11.

CPU Generation vice Win 11

"In practice, Windows 11 officially supports most mainstream PCs with:

Intel 8th Gen Core processors or newer, with a small number of 7th Gen exceptions
AMD Ryzen 2000-series processors or newer, plus supported newer Athlon, Threadripper, and EPYC models
Qualcomm Snapdragon 850, 7c, 8c, 8cx, and newer Windows-on-Arm chips
Windows 11 also requires other security features, including TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot capability. A supported CPU alone does not guarantee your PC is eligible, but an unsupported CPU is one of the most common reasons a Windows 10 machine cannot upgrade through Windows Update."

TPM 2.0 vice Win 11:

"Is TPM Built Into Some Computers but Not Others?
Yes — a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) is not present on all computers. It is a secure cryptoprocessor that can be implemented in two main ways: as a separate chip on the motherboard or as integrated into the CPU Microsoft Support.

Why Some PCs Have a TPM and Others Don’t
Modern PCs (especially those built in the last several years) almost always include a TPM, either as a discrete chip or embedded in the processor Microsoft Support+1.

Older PCs (from the early 2000s or earlier) may not have a TPM at all, or it may be disabled in the BIOS.

Some manufacturers may omit a TPM in budget or older models, even if the CPU supports it, to reduce cost Petri IT Knowledgebase.

How to Check if Your PC Has a TPM
On Windows, you can:

Open Settings → System → Security & privacy → Device security → Security processor.

If you see a Security processor section, your PC has a TPM.

Click Security processor details to see the TPM version (1.2 or 2.0) Microsoft Support.

Alternatively, run tpm.msc in the Run dialog to check TPM status Trusted Reviews+1.

If the TPM is listed as “Compatible TPM cannot be found,” your PC may not have one, or it may be disabled.

Enabling a TPM
If your PC has a TPM but it’s disabled, you can usually enable it in the BIOS/UEFI settings:

Restart and enter BIOS (often F2, Del, or F12).

Look for a Security or Advanced CPU Configuration tab.

Find TPM, Intel Platform Trust Technology (IPTT), AMD CPU fTPM, or PCH-FW and set it to Enabled Petri IT Knowledgebase.
Why It Matters
Windows 11 requires TPM 2.0 for installation Wikipedia+1.

TPMs are used for features like BitLocker encryption and Windows Hello biometric login Microsoft Support.

Without a TPM, certain security features and OS requirements (like Windows 11) cannot be used.

In short: TPM is common in modern PCs but not universal. If you need it for security or OS compatibility, check your system and enable it if possible."


Secure Boot vice Win 11:

"You can quickly verify whether Secure Boot is active on your PC using built-in Windows tools or PowerShell.

Method 1: Using System Information

Press Win + R to open the Run dialog.

Type msinfo32 and press Enter.

In the System Summary section, find Secure Boot State in the right pane.

Check the value: On means enabled, Off means disabled, Unsupported means your hardware does not support it.

Method 2: Using PowerShell

Search for PowerShell in the Start menu.

Right-click Windows PowerShell and select Run as Administrator.

Type Confirm-SecureBootUEFI and press Enter.

Review the result: True means enabled, False means disabled, or an error if unsupported.

Method 3: Using Steam (if installed)

Open the Steam client.

Click Help in the top menu and select System Information.

Scroll to the Operating System section and check the Secure Boot entry."


There are various "work-arounds" which may enable the use of Win 11 on computers which cannot be updated to allow such. Usually problematic, and MS seems to squash them regularly.


CPUs soldered to the Mother Board (MoBo) are not normally upgradable. In general, the CPU choices are constrained by the existing CPU "socket" on the MoBo, into which the CPU sits. Some models of computers may have come with upgraded CPUS which fit same socket. The trick here is to select a replacement CPU with a Thermal Dispersion Power (TDP) similar to existing CPU. If TDP is much in excess of original TDP, the CPU may run hot and will self-throttle to reduce heat. Always clean out existing cooling fans and passages using compressed air blowing in the direction which cooling air is exhausted.

Others may differ, but I find is beneficial to use UEFI boot in lieu of "Legacy Boot", and AHCI mode, both selectable in BIOS. You can clone a drive to do a test to see if changing the above parameters makes a difference, such as possible data loss

In any event, it is highly suggested to visit official Update sited for computer Mfr and the CPU Mfr. If available, update your computer fully before proceeding. Updating Gfx card from Mfr's site is also useful.

I don't, but I'll see if I can run the tests again, and see if they tell me anything useful.

@RIBob
That looks like an AI generated post. Not that it isn't useful. Thanks for posting it. But those details are accessible on Microsoft Website, if you check. or do a BING search.

Anyhow those older Intel boards had TMP 1.2 a lot, my xp machine has that, heh. For some reason I couldn't get win7 on it, I tired lol. But the computer was from 2004 roughly so I didn't expect much.

Some sections were AI generated, but majority of the post was hand typed by me. AI generated content has been vetted, but since system differences exist, no ironclad guarantees.

One very significant problem that folks who are trying to upgrade older computers is that the prices of RAM and SSDs has skyrocketed since Mfrs are devoting most production to construction of data centers. Prices for what little is available are also through the roof.

It may be possible to find some older CPUs (say, Intel Gen 8 and later) for reasonable prices, but they will need a compatible Mobo. Some of these older CPUs may have TMP 2.0 on them--check it.

You'll still need RAM and SSD(s) to round out the CPU/MoBo assy. Maybe some can be scavenged from older computers which are incapable of significant upgrading.

Yeah about 5 years ago I was looking at a 250gig SSD to replace my HD. it was only a 100 and some bucks I think then.

Anyhow I upgraded my ram about 12 years ago and since it was a rare find I paid quit a bit for the 4 memory cards. I know I was disappointed that prices where so high just a few years after I got my original configuration of 4 gigs.

But I'm maxed out at this speed of ram anyhow now.

I'm not looking forward to getting a new computer, because mostly of the costs now. I would have to get a higher end I suppose, more so that what I'm comfortable with...so cost is an issue again.

@Moggy
You probabaly go into the windows update and there should be a link on the right to re test your computer. I'm just curios for the sake of it though...so no hurry.

There may be some gently used computers available which may either come with the components/features you desire or may be capable of upgrading in some instances. We already know that some 7th Gen Intel chips will run Win 11, and, IIRC, most all 8th gen Intel CPUS will do. So, some older computers may make the grade for you and not break the bank.

I suggest considering a "Tower" type of computer with internal wiring for multiple SSD drives (just switch amongst the drives for different OSs) and the extra room inside the case allows decent sized Gfx cards.

Be careful about buying computers because some folks are removing the RAM and SSDs from them and selling those items separately.

There may be some gently used computers available which may either come with the components/features you desire or may be capable of upgrading in some instances. We already know that some 7th Gen Intel chips will run Win 11, and, IIRC, most all 8th Gen (and later) Intel CPUS will do for Win 11. So, some older computers may make the grade for you and not break the bank.

I suggest considering a "Tower" type of computer with internal wiring for multiple SSD drives (just switch amongst the drives for different OSs) and the extra room inside the case allows decent sized Gfx cards.

Be careful about buying computers because some folks are removing the RAM and SSDs from them and selling those items separately.

Yeah a tower is what I'd get. no need, nor do I want a laptop. Seems like everyone's getting laptops these days....I guess it convenient.

From personal experience, tower computers have various internal capacities, including internal dimensions and Gfx card attachments which will allow modern Gfx cards to be "accepted" by the computer MoBo and computer case itself. Some relatively modern tower cases may be too small for some of the larger Gfx cards, not to mention that some older MoBos may not have the physical/electrical stuff which modern Gfx cards often demand.

To be short, any reasonably recent. decent tower computer will serve. Do your research on trusted sites.

It's also very useful to consider possible "upgraded" versions of same tower computer which can be retro-upgraded at a fraction of original cost. My Dell 8930 tower computer allowed many upgrades for fairly cheap cost, buying components on the web. Additional case cooling fans, improved CPU-specific cooling system, "reasonably" large Gfx cards, and other stuff were "factory upgrades" and easy to do in retro.

For the most part, swapping-in decent power supplies is not usually a problem.

LMK your personal concerns if you wish. All the best, Bob

of course to all what "you" said.

I built several computers over the course of 25 years or more I guess.

I messed up one time, I bought too small of a case and my heat sink with fan was way to large. It was also contributed to faulty market practices...I wanted a smaller one in the first place but it didn't indicate in the description if it would fit the cpu..which I found out latter the cooler would fit the cpu.

Aw well, that computer is old now too, maybe a few years newer than mine.

Anyhow isn't this a EAW forum, shouldn't we be talking mostly about the EAW Game, and computer builds in a more focused Forum topic, if it exists on SimHQ?

Sure, it's the EAW forum, but anything that helps folks with older computers to run EAW seems to me to not be wildly off-topic. Anyways, this thread has likely played itself out anyways. All the best to you and yours!

MarkEAW many forums here, especially PWEC go off topic at times. Like RIBob I also agree that this seems to me to not be wildly off-topic. If it helps EAW users get it running, it’s OK with me.

Yes I know. I see your guys points. But the thread is just kinda plain, and seems AI bla generated at points, with "facts" so to say. i don't know how to explain it...just unnatural I guess.
Anyhow take care people.

Just doing a memory upgrade here from 12GB to maxing out at 32. And trying to sort out a stuck W10 update. Then hopefully to pursue the W11 question

I had gone from 4 gigs to 8 gigs about nine years ago, I could have gone to 16 max I believe, but the memory would have been much slower, that's was the only way to have 16 at the time...so I wasn't sure what was best.
Might be an issue for you too....

There isn't anything wrong with extra RAM.

Yeah, but it was going to be slow.
I probably would have been better getting more ram though. I hardly use half of my memory as it is, maybe the most is 5.1 gigs,

I have readyboost at 2 gigs as well on usb. Seems to be working out pretty well.

I don't play any games anymore and when I did 2 gig vid card seem to work well. I use large programs now though..still seems fine.

So yeah extra ram wouldn't hurt if you need it.

Long time ago a G/F was helping an animal rescue league by taking digital pix and posting pix plus text to internet site. I believe she had early version of broadband (not dial-up) and the uploading process took literally hours from beginning to end, using her ancient Gateway tower computer. I had done some research and had upgraded the RAM on my similar vintage and equally ancient and crappy Dell tower computer. I replaced the RAM sticks in her Gateway with max allowable (maybe 128GB?) In fact, every single measurement of computer performance was enhanced.

No more @#!*%&( WAITING!

The pix and text uploaded to the web site in mere seconds instead of nearly an hour. Since then, I've always been a fan of upgrading RAM if it makes sense and if it's affordable.

Most computer users claim that Win 11 OS is very demanding and 16Gb of RAM is none too much. Gamers or other "demanding" users of higher-end games/programs might benefit from even more RAM.

It's true that most older games, and perhaps the Operating Systems (OS) used to play them, are not so demanding of RAM, but may still benefit from increasing available RAM as the computer allows.

True that Gfx cards will have internal RAM which capacity has increased as time goes by. Upgrading one's total RAM is valuable, but also upgrading one's Gfx card may be equally as useful.

Recent RAM shortages caused by construction of "AI Data Centers" may not directly pertain to more elderly RAM chips which will fit some elderly computers but be "too slow" or inapplicable for modern computers.

Going by your local computer person(s) and inquiring about the availability of elderly RAM modules which will be Upgrades for your elderly computer might be wise/useful. You will need to know the Specs for Ram modules suitable for your computer. Specs are everything.

Think of this like driving by the local auto salvage yard and asking if they have certain items which you need. You might get lucky get the part and save a bundle of money.

I admit to using some AI-generated comment in at least one of my responses. I carefully read/vetted the AI text being fully aware of AI flaws. I posted the comments, after vetting, to save me time.

I would never post anything here--or anywhere- with an un-read/un-vetted/un-corrected AI comment.

Done the memory upgrade. In order to sort out a stuck W10 update, all other options not working, I had to do a W10 reinstall in place, which worked out far better than I thought it would, then another scree of updates. Finally the machine now seems to be working okay, and a bit more spritely.

Did the W11 check, and it tells me that my processor apparently, is not up to W11. So I'll be doing without for the time being. I see MS has extended the period for W10 security updates to October next year.

Thanks, so only your CPU.
Yeah October of next year and free for those who share/sync there data with MS.

honestly I didn't know my settings where being synced. This was done unknowingly by me. But apparently there are quite a few hidden options like that so...whatever.

I use now this newer program call Winhance. Its free, but they do wish for donations from home users. Anyhow it covers a lot of options that are normally scattered across win10 settings and stuff.

Alright well, glad your system is working after the win10 in place install. I had to do that a few times in the past.

Your questions will likely be answered at these sites (Disclaimer: NO personal financial interest in any site mentioned below):

https://www.sevenforums.com/forums/general-discussion.2/

https://www.tenforums.com/general-support/

https://www.elevenforum.com/questions/general-support/

Think of these sites as being rough equivalents of Mark's EAW site, but for Operating Systems and to a lesser extent, the computers on which the OSs reside.

If you have a Win 7 or Win 10 computer for playing old games, and a Win 11 computer for reasonably secure connection to Internet, fine.

You can also rig up a "Dual Boot" SSD with Win 11 and either Win 10 or Win 7 as secondary drives on same SSD. Unlikely the "lower # Win OS will be protected from online threats as is the Win 11 OS. Obviously, this assumes your computer is capable of running Win 11, and all relevant BIOS settings are exactly alike for all win OSs.

If you have an old computer which cannot be upgraded to Win 11, but is still reasonably useful, consider Linux OS. One of my laptops is Linux Mint OS, and since Linux is "lighter" to run than even Win 7, it is quite speedy on the internet. Use Supermium or r3dfox browser for Win 7, as it they are both still being updated. both browsers will go back to Win XP, but both require good personal internet skills concerning avoiding "problematic" links. Frequent Backups mandatory with both. After some investigation, I chose r3dfox for my Win 7 computer, since GUI was most like Firefox installed on my Linux laptop, and not impossibly unlike Windows Edge. I'll probably transition all my computers to Firefox browser for privacy and security reasons.

Sorry for the blather, but the point is that some users of elderly computers need not toss them; they may have viable modern alternatives, depending on the computer's hardware, and whether or not is possible/affordable/necessary to upgrade the existing hardware to something newer.

Owners of very ancient computers can benefit most from this Upgrade scheme.

@MarkEAW Protondb (hub for Linux/proton compatible games) EAW link here: https://www.protondb.com/search?q=european%20air%20war Note fix in text.

Might be something worth considering including in your site, given the many Microsoft users migrating away from Win 11.

Just trying to keep EAW (and variants) alive into the future.

Thanks for the extended info RIBob.

As far as Linux, I tried it before, but something about my wifi adapter wasn't supported then. I think it might be now though. I plan to stick with Win10 then perhaps Win11.
My winxp machine I may change its internet browser to one you recommend. If I ever get on it again that is. I want the thing sold really. lol. (locally though, no shipping it).

I've seen that Linux stuff before as FSFOOT had pointed out EAW on Linux articles he made. I also did see that gog note about ddraw.dll. On windows you need that file from gog to run the exe correctly.

Alright!