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I'm not even sure one can have a sensible conversation about BOS any more.
Anyone that disagrees with something the developers have done is branded a hater and anyone else must be in the other camp.
And, apparently you're not allowed to have an opinion if you don't own the game.
Sensibility went out the window a long time ago.
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...
The problem isn't that a developer can't make money creating campaigns
The issue is the opportunity cost. That they can make more money doing something else with those resources.
And also the fact that missions campaigns can be created by the users themselves. The developer sinking time into creating missions and campaigns is like them creating aircraft skins instead of just allowing players to do that. It's not a productive use of their time.
Sharpe, I would really like to know, how much money went for those fancy medals... They are nice from an artist's point of view, lot of work must have been be put to make them, but they are totally off/useless/disturbing/immersion killers from a sim player's view. Just an example... I think fantasy medals are pretty cheap to make. Not a lot of historical research required. I like genuine historical awards in sims too. I'm sure we will see those in whatever career mode gets made. The truth is though that there aren't that many historical awards or promotions a real pilot could earn in the course of just a few months. Fantasy awards or achievements are just game awards for doing stuff like shooting 10 enemy gunners. Those are fun for players but of course there was no real awards corresponding to tasks like that. If you limit game achievements to realistic criteria most players wouldn't win anything.
Last edited by SharpeXB; 08/31/15 08:29 PM.
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I'm one of them. When I first downloaded RoF there was no PWCG and I said "meh" and didn't spend a dime. When I later found PWCG I bought every single RoF product 777 has for sale (including stuff like the fancy scarves...everything), not to support 777, but because I suddenly found RoF that fun with the addition of PWCG.
So does that mean that if say hypothetically pat Wilson himslef decided to upgrade his generator for BoS then you would be happier than you are now... again hypothetically..? ... Features that every other game has so why not a flight sim? You can skip them if you like now so who cares? The unlocks as implemented were a bad idea. Period. There is no getting around that.. The XP points weren't much better.. With the XP points all they had to do was call it logging flight hours or something like that and it would have been much better received.. and even of they implemented unlocks for other than skin stuff... if they had limited the unlocks solely to the campaign and tied them again.. to flight hours or tie them to a historic point in time when the field mods were actually available .. it would have gone over much better.
Are we talking about Unlocks again seriously? 2014 called and wants its forum topic back.
Actually we are talking about having an included and engaging SP dynamic campaign, sadly it always comes down to the fact the time was wasted on the unlocks. I can't say for sure.. but I imagine that it was probably a lot less time consuming to implement unlocks than it would have been to create an engaging SP campaign for 10 aircraft when considering historic accuracy and research and putting it all together... What part of money exchanging hands in order to get rid of unlocks makes it any different? Maybe it is the same part of paying for additional content that some folks have had a hard time understanding since the pricing was announced.. I will grant you though that it was probably a motivating factor in doing it for Premium only .. but then I never saw the point in buying the standard edition anyway.. and for $40.. it sure looks like a no brainer to me..
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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"There's no such thing as bad publicity."
I think it's as simple as that. It was getting slow in here, not much new to say. Posts were fewer and further between. That means it's time for the BoS acolytes Supporters to come in here and poke a stick into the hornets nest. At least that keeps some kind of BoS discussion going.
Cloyd
Edited to comply with Moderator's suggestion/request.
Last edited by Cloyd; 08/31/15 09:30 PM.
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"There's no such thing as bad publicity."
I think it's as simple as that. It was getting slow in here, not much new to say. Posts were fewer and further between. That means it's time for the BoS acolytes to come in here an poke a stick into the hornets nest. At least that keeps some kind of BoS discussion going.
Cloyd I agree.
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra m�d,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra m�r yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.
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OK folks, let's get away from directing the "White Knight" and "Hater" labels at participants here, going forward. "White knight" and "hate" showed up as early as the first page of the thread, but back then it was not in a manner of calling other participants here a name, so it wasn't a problem. "Supporters" and "Detractors" gets the orientation across without the inherent derogation.
I would like to thank everyone for refraining from the infantilizing stuff, such as "Fan Boy", as we don't need to go there, either.
I'm not going to go back and edit the earlier posts. Let's just do better going forward.
Thanks!
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What do you call the same 3-4 fans here saying the same thing over and over and over again, hijacking every topic with the same stuff over and over and over?   Hijacking a topic... How ironic.. in this thread.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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Hijacking a topic... How ironic.. in this thread.
You kinda created your own thread to be off topic. 4th post down (your response to lokitexas: It's a no brainer for sure.
Wait for it to drop to $9.99 to its true value. That will be a long wait. It never ceases to amaze me how deep this negative stuff towards BoS runs with some of the folks over here. Instead of taking the high road and explaining why you think it is worth it...you fire shots accross the bow 2 posts later: It's a no brainer for sure.
Wait for it to drop to $9.99 to its true value. Not even then... but this amount of hate makes me speachless. Why does "hate" have to be used if someone is voicing weather the sale price is worth it? It just starts the ball rolling to where we are now. So after taking another look...can you see how the thread got "hijacked" and who was somewhat responsible?
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What do you call the same 3-4 fans here saying the same thing over and over and over again, hijacking every topic with the same stuff over and over and over? Hijacking a topic... How ironic.. in this thread. Yeah you feel innocent, and poor you got picked on, you did nothing but post a sale..... Yada yadda...been there....heard that.... The funny thing is at least this thread is still alive with good conversation mixed in there somewhere. Much more alive than your other DD updates and other "information" posts you make that drop off after 2 to 3 posts.
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So does that mean that if say hypothetically Pat Wilson himself decided to upgrade his generator for BoS then you would be happier than you are now... again hypothetically..? I don't know how familiar you are with PWCG, but if it was left intact with all its bells and whistles and upgraded for BoS the answer would be absolutely! PWCG is incredibly powerful and is actually a different game that uses the RoF engine. In the PWCG Advanced Config menu you can do almost anything with it (for instance, realistic mission distances, weather, turbulence, and probably a hundred other mission parameters). It represents complete freedom of play style within the RoF engine and because you can adjust the density of air and ground units you can tune the missions to your system's capacity to run the game. I really think RoF and IL-1946 are the two best combat flight sims ever created. But I only add RoF to that list with the addition of PWCG. PWCG gives you a reason to want to get your pilot home alive. It gives you a reason to want to bring your wingmen home alive (because your squad mates are tracked by name and skill level in PWCG you want to keep the better ones alive or you won't have them in the next missions). PWCG gives you so much to think about, and I've only scratched the surface. Pat Wilson would make a brilliant game producer. I think PWCG could save their franchise. Any form of a realistic campaign system would save their franchise. That is, as long as Loft doesn't get in the middle of it and push something in your face to ruin immersion and turn a wonderfully historic feeling mission into a GAME! They need to find a way to avoid seeing things like the "you blew up 10 groundhogs" medals if they start using PWCG...lol IMO 
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!" 
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So does that mean that if say hypothetically Pat Wilson himself decided to upgrade his generator for BoS then you would be happier than you are now... again hypothetically..? , but if it was left intact with all its bells and whistles and upgraded for BoS the answer would be absolutely! PWCG is incredibly powerful and is actually a different game that uses the RoF engine. In the PWCG Advanced Config menu you can do almost anything with it (for instance, realistic mission distances, weather, turbulence, and probably a hundred other mission parameters). It represents complete freedom of play style within the RoF engine and because you can adjust the density of air and ground units you can tune the missions to your system's capacity to run the game. I really think RoF and IL-1946 are the two best combat flight sims ever created. But I only add RoF to that list with the addition of PWCG. PWCG gives you a reason to want to get your pilot home alive. It gives you a reason to want to bring your wingmen home alive (because your squad mates are tracked by name and skill level in PWCG you want to keep the better ones alive or you won't have them in the next missions). PWCG gives you so much to think about, and I've only scratched the surface. Pat Wilson would make a brilliant game producer. I think PWCG could save their franchise. Any form of a realistic campaign system would save their franchise. That is, as long as Loft doesn't get in the middle of it and push something in your face to ruin immersion and turn a wonderfully historic feeling mission into a GAME! They need to find a way to avoid seeing things like the "you blew up 10 groundhogs" medals if they start using PWCG...lol IMO Not very.. which was why I asked the question.. It was no other motive than curiosity .. thnks.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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To avoid getting things twisted I figured I'd respond to these posts in a different post from Buckshort's..
Hijacking a topic... How ironic.. in this thread.
You kinda created your own thread to be off topic. 4th post down (your response to lokitexas: It's a no brainer for sure.
Wait for it to drop to $9.99 to its true value. That will be a long wait. It never ceases to amaze me how deep this negative stuff towards BoS runs with some of the folks over here. Instead of taking the high road and explaining why you think it is worth it... you fire shots accross the bow
2 posts later: It's a no brainer for sure.
Wait for it to drop to $9.99 to its true value. Not even then... . Why does "hate" have to be used if someone is voicing weather the sale price is worth it? It just starts the ball rolling to where we are now. So after taking another look...can you see how the thread got "hijacked" and who was somewhat responsible? I saw that from the beginning.. duhhh.. Ummmmmm you do realize that your second quote is not me right.. One thing is for certain... there were quite a high road options to be had for sure..
Yeah you feel innocent, and poor you got picked on, you did nothing but post a sale..... Yada yadda...been there....heard that....
The funny thing is at least this thread is still alive with good conversation mixed in there somewhere.
Much more alive than your other DD updates and other "information" posts you make that drop off after 2 to 3 posts.
I didn't post any of those threads to keep them alive.. I posted them to let folks know that there was a DD.. Or a sale.. because I know that regardless to who posts more.. there are other folks who come here and read this forum.. I could care less if no one responds.. especially if they have nothing positive to say.. I wish no one had responded in this one.. I'm just sayin... 
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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No...
Uhhhhh you do realize that your second quote is not me right.. One thing is for certain... there were quite a high road options to be had for sure..
I know the second post wasn't you...I was just showing that it takes two sides of a "camp" to Tango. Obviously, forums are a good place to share sales info etc., but at the end of the day...it's still a discussion forum and all news will be discussed. 
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So does that mean that if say hypothetically Pat Wilson himself decided to upgrade his generator for BoS then you would be happier than you are now... again hypothetically..? I don't know how familiar you are with PWCG, but if it was left intact with all its bells and whistles and upgraded for BoS the answer would be absolutely! PWCG is incredibly powerful and is actually a different game that uses the RoF engine. In the PWCG Advanced Config menu you can do almost anything with it (for instance, realistic mission distances, weather, turbulence, and probably a hundred other mission parameters). It represents complete freedom of play style within the RoF engine and because you can adjust the density of air and ground units you can tune the missions to your system's capacity to run the game. I really think RoF and IL-1946 are the two best combat flight sims ever created. But I only add RoF to that list with the addition of PWCG. PWCG gives you a reason to want to get your pilot home alive. It gives you a reason to want to bring your wingmen home alive (because your squad mates are tracked by name and skill level in PWCG you want to keep the better ones alive or you won't have them in the next missions). PWCG gives you so much to think about, and I've only scratched the surface. Pat Wilson would make a brilliant game producer. I think PWCG could save their franchise. Any form of a realistic campaign system would save their franchise. That is, as long as Loft doesn't get in the middle of it and push something in your face to ruin immersion and turn a wonderfully historic feeling mission into a GAME! They need to find a way to avoid seeing things like the "you blew up 10 groundhogs" medals if they start using PWCG...lol IMO Fully agree with you about PWCG. The best thing that can happen for BoS is getting this adapted for it.
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I don't get the argument that a third party should make a campaign generator because the developers say it's not in their budget/a waste of development time/not financially viable to do so themselves.
The omission of this important part of the SP experience has hurt sales of BoM and will hurt sales of further expansions. That is your "no brainer" Bearcat
It appears, to me, it is not financially viable to sit on ones backside and wait for the paying customers to finish the game for them. It's nothing short of retarded to think that way in the face of falling sales.
$90 for a game one has to develop ones self or wait for somebody else to do the job of the devs for $zero. That is beyond retarded. How on earth can anybody defend that? Explain that to me and ALL the potential customers that are thinking of buying this $90 turd Sharp
DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
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Fully agree with you about PWCG. The best thing that can happen for BoS is getting this adapted for it.
It's unfortunate, but I don't think Pat has any interest in WWII at all. His work on WWI sims goes back at least to Red Baron 3D when he worked on The Western Front UOP. It had moving frontlines and all sorts of historic corrections...really brilliant stuff considering the limits of the day. It definitely shows a passion for the period and that's what's needed to craft a campaign/career system. I was under the impression that Pat allowed his code to be used and worked on by someone to port it over to BOS? Is this not the case anymore?
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Fully agree with you about PWCG. The best thing that can happen for BoS is getting this adapted for it.
It's unfortunate, but I don't think Pat has any interest in WWII at all. His work on WWI sims goes back at least to Red Baron 3D when he worked on The Western Front UOP. It had moving frontlines and all sorts of historic corrections...really brilliant stuff considering the limits of the day. It definitely shows a passion for the period and that's what's needed to craft a campaign/career system. I was under the impression that Pat allowed his code to be used and worked on by someone to port it over to BOS? Is this not the case anymore? Yes, last I heard someone is working on it now with Jason. And with Pat, yeah the wealth of his knowledge shows on the CG
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Fully agree with you about PWCG. The best thing that can happen for BoS is getting this adapted for it.
It's unfortunate, but I don't think Pat has any interest in WWII at all. His work on WWI sims goes back at least to Red Baron 3D when he worked on The Western Front UOP. It had moving frontlines and all sorts of historic corrections...really brilliant stuff considering the limits of the day. It definitely shows a passion for the period and that's what's needed to craft a campaign/career system. I was under the impression that Pat allowed his code to be used and worked on by someone to port it over to BOS? Is this not the case anymore? It has been posted in the past that Beebaboo is working on the conversion: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ub...,_h#Post4136173
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I don't get the argument that a third party should make a campaign generator because the developers say it's not in their budget/a waste of development time/not financially viable to do so themselves.
The omission of this important part of the SP experience has hurt sales of BoM and will hurt sales of further expansions. That is your "no brainer" Bearcat
It appears, to me, it is not financially viable to sit on ones backside and wait for the paying customers to finish the game for them. It's nothing short of retarded to think that way in the face of falling sales.
$90 for a game one has to develop ones self or wait for somebody else to do the job of the devs for $zero. That is beyond retarded. How on earth can anybody defend that? Explain that to me and ALL the potential customers that are thinking of buying this $90 turd Sharp
Fully agree with you about PWCG. The best thing that can happen for BoS is getting this adapted for it.
It's unfortunate, but I don't think Pat has any interest in WWII at all. His work on WWI sims goes back at least to Red Baron 3D when he worked on The Western Front UOP. It had moving frontlines and all sorts of historic corrections...really brilliant stuff considering the limits of the day. It definitely shows a passion for the period and that's what's needed to craft a campaign/career system. I was under the impression that Pat allowed his code to be used and worked on by someone to port it over to BOS? Is this not the case anymore? We shall surely see... I am optimistic. I guess I am just a glass half full kind of guy.. I believe that we will see movement sooner rather than later.. I think that we will see this movement beofre BoM is released..
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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Thanks CyBerkut...that's where I heard it. I can't find a member with that name at the official BOS forum...hopefully it's still being worked on.
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J-B Weld
by Terl9999 - 10/02/26 11:54 PM
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