homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation IL-2: Great Battles IL-2: Great Battles - Extended Discussions In search of answers...

My biggest problem with the presets and the reasoning behind them is... Considering the level of angst against them.. why not just open it back up and keep the presets and just establish that if you try to do your own settings and you screw the pooch then revert to a preset because they work.

Easy Peasy man...

That would solve all of that.

Just say We don't do support for graphics issues if you have a graphics issues unless it is one that is manifested under a preset. If the problem cannot be duplicated then it cannot be duplicated.. suck it up and move on.

Given the way that BoS runs with the presets.. there may be, a very dubious "may" ... be a very small minority that will still have issues.. but for the most part most folks who have a halfway decent rig will wind up with a decent running sim set to their liking. Look at what went down with IL2.. we adapted.. We had posts at M4T.. Remember M4T? We had posts there that talked folks through graphics settings based on community experience.

The debate rages about whether or not this is RoF WWII or IL2 the Next generation... all that stuff is moot. Call it what you want... Oleg ain't here for whatever reason.. it's IL2 .. sort of... based on legal copyright mumbo jumbo.. WHAT EVER ... The bottom line is it's a WWII sim.. in spite of what some may say or think about the details.. and it is, regardless to how some may feel about the statement, or BoS .. the only developer supported dedicated WWII sim on the market at the moment... still... DCS WWII not withstanding..

All that is not to say that we should .. as simmers.. regardless to what sim any one of us thinks is the greatest thing since sliced bread or the bearer of the legacy ... and all that BULL$HIT... just roll over and accept what ever this team or any team tosses our way... but for crying out loud... We are all grown men. There are people in this thread that I have known, or known of for well over a decade...

I mean come ON...

We are all grown men.. and many of us... most of us... are all living our childhood fantasies vicariously through this past time. I have seen the posts through the years from many of you.. and most of us are at the very least.. as the kids in the group ... in our 40s... Hell I am going to be 60 this summer... and my point with all that is .. that none of us are friggin children.. so why do we act that way?

I can't speak for how it is anywhere but here in the U.S.A. ... and I like my hard earned cash as much as the next guy... but I have pissed away far far more money than I spent on this sim... in 2015 alone... Hell I went to see The Avengers in IMAX with the wife the son and his girl... and that cost me more than this sim... and it is now a memory.

Say what you want .. be as disgruntled as you want.. but this personal BS has to stop guys... We have GOT to find a way to express our hopes and desires for this genre and this sim in particular and our satisfaction or dissatisfaction therin without the personal BS that only hurts the genre... At best we have 4 sims to choose from... 4... IL2 46, CoD, DCS and BoS. As simmers we cannot afford to have any of those products fall by the wayside for any reason other than they were just not good... and from where I sit.. BoS with all it's flaws .. does not fall into that category less than a year out.. sorry... it does not...

No sim to this day has been that bad.

WT for all it's detractors... has a huge following .. and is not that bad.

We need to stop and sit back and ask ourselves where a lot of this stuff is coming from... and make adjustments to our collective attitudes where applicable... At the end of the day we are all folks who are passionate about aviation and WWII aviation in particular.. I have no doubt that the BoS team.. regardless to whatever boneheaded decisions they may have made and regardless to which side of the team, these decisons came from, want to just produce a decent WWII sim.. and given what we have already at our disposal the option for a developer supported dedicated WWII sim isd quite appealing to me.. given what we have.

How long have we been waiting for 5.0 from TF? How long have we been waiting for 4.13 from TD? How long have we been waiting for DCS WWII and EDGE before that? Not to take away from what they all have done... or to say that none of that is forthcoming, which I believe it all is .. I see great times ahead for WWII simmer... but we have people tanking BoS totally.. across multiple venues.. because they are unhappy with part of it.. We have all this personal drama going on .. in cyberspace... and this is all just wrong..

It is wrong guys..

It is wrong.

That might be true, but A LONG TIME BEFORE that happened there were user-created campaigns and customisable user-settings.


Heck, there was an entire forum set up specifically for user-to-user support, which, for most users, was the first port of call for hardware and software issues.
There were people ready and willing to help improve the running of the game for you, for me and for anyone else.
I doubt the developers ever needed to field much in the way of support as it was predominantly handled by the community.

These two small things; user-created content and user-to-user support, helped breathe life into the game by feeding the community.
As the community became more involved more copies of the game were sold.

It was like the perfect feedback loop.

Nothing like this is possible with BOS because the game is stuck with four presets and no possibility to create user-made campaigns.

It's like the developers of BOS took the best parts of what made IL-2 successful and tossed them in the bin, and kept the rest because ... what, because Warthunder doesn't do that ... or what?

Can someone, anyone explain why IL-2 became the aberration we have today?


And I have heard this nonsense about "we turned it around in two years" and "never has anyone done the same in such short time" ... and?

So, someone produces a boring game in two years, makes a few hundred thousand dollars selling unkept promises and ...? We're supposed to be grateful?

I'd have been a lot more grateful if they'd spent an extra year, making the game they trumpeted before taking people's cash and then we'd all be here helping each other play the game and assisting each other in making the game run great and all the other things simming communities used to do, before the IL-2 name was trodden into the dirt.

Say whatever you want - BOS and BOM have a looooooooooong way to come before they deserve to have the IL-2 moniker attached.

Let's not twist the history here.. Oleg was not happy with the modding of IL2.. he was dead set against it and that is one of the other reasons why IL2 was so successful.. it was unmodded and therefore "cheat free" as far as folks altering FMs and DMs etc.. If I am not mistaken while CoD was eventually meant to be modded.. it was not out the gate that way.. somebody by all means correct me if I am wrong.

I cannot fathom why modding is such an issue.

To my mind modding is only necessary when the base game is rubbish.

Oh, hold on ...

My point was that IL2 was standing tall before modding came about.. as you said.. there was user content.. user made utilities in abundance before the sim was hacked.

Ok but there's a difference between user created content and modding. BoS is all open to user created content and has some already.
If a Pat Wilson style campaign gets made for it, and I hope it does. That's not a mod either. It's just a 3rd party add on program.

It has a robust and user friendly SP system, as well as a robust and user friendly MP system.

Oh please. The base game in this instance is definitly not rubbish. Far from it. I know people have issue with features like the campaign. I would like better options in that regard as well. But the core aspects of the game are very well done.

Core aspects? the unique aspect at the core of BOS is the unlock system, they have literally taken an existing 2009 game and mixed it with content from a 2010 game and made it worse than either.

BoS... graphically gorgeous game... that's it, that's all I get out of it as a single player user.
I cannot get fully immersed in it's 'historical' content because I have no sense of belonging to any historical unit. I don't know who my wingmen are, I don't know their level of ability or competence, I have no ongoing sense of achieving anything for the cause I am fighting for.
I have no meaningful reward for risking myself and my men apart from phoney made up accolades.

It has zero appeal, and that is why I consistently fly the 'old IL2' with its older graphics but fully immersive campaigns (apparently most people don't like that style of flight simming)...

Why is it that a die hard flight simmer like me consistently goes back to an older out of date game, when there is a 'successor' that is carrying on that famous brand name?

Even Jason had stated he didn't want that title added to the game... He has been with the flight sim genre for quite some time and I believe he knows his stuff alright, but in this current offering he seems pretty much out of the loop on producing what some of thought we were getting when BoSBoM took on the IL2 mantle...

Unlocks?! Do you still even own this game? Or didn't you get a refund? They got rid of the unlocks long ago or really you can buy your way out with the Premium Edition. And before you complain about buying then you have to buy em in RoF too. At least BoS lets you have the option to win them as well.
Core aspects = Flight Model, Damage Model, Maps, Graphics, Commands etc. that part of the sim is well done.

Apparently I do still own a premium license to the game but I uninstalled it months ago, yes I got a refund, they got rid of unlocks for premium users not everyone so the game still has unlocks....what's your point?

The core aspects you mentioned, FM's, DM's and maps have come in for some very deserved criticism, commands and graphics I'll let you have.

I, and I assume others, would not have bought early access if it was not for the IL2 name.

If it was RoF: WWII I would have waited for a finished product before purchasing, because of my experience with 777 in the past. No saying I wouldn't buy it if it only 777 doing it (probably would have better), but I would have been wary.

I am a sucker, and fell for "The legend continues". My bad. Lesson learned.

The only company I will freely give money to is CD Projekt Red, and a few others that are not only confident in their product (as in refunds if you don't like it in 30 days), but seem to deliver over and over.

Well said, Trooper. But I don't think your closing line is accurate. There is a reason that BoS is floundering on Steam and the most glaring explanation is a lack of fully immersive content. I've not seen any better explanation, or any explanation at all for the fact that Steam players are abandoning BoS faster than they call sell it.

Is there anyone who has a better explanation for why BoS is floundering on Steam? Sharpe, Bearcat, anyone?

Just for sake of "il-2 history":

The first MOD show for the public* - as proof of hacked code - is this video from 02-2007:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=BR&hl=pt&v=ffIuFecRHSk&bpctr=1433290731

The first public (or for non cheater purpose) MOD for Il-2'46 was the "Sound MOD" (new sounds and some "Frakenplanes" - AI planes with fake cockpits) that come public in 09-2007 (for the UbiZ00 crowd despair).

The first Team Daidalos patch - so "non official" - came in 02-2009, under supervision on MG (what needed concentrate his work force in the CloD "imbroglio).

* The SFS extractor was show be his author in the extinct Sukhoi forum at end of 2006, I think...
In between this and the "Sound MOD" some know four letters tag squad in online war's used this "knowledge" for their advantage...

Yes... and it was a trip too...

End of the world
So.. that's it?

Those old sims have that sort of content precisely because they're old. I don't imagine all those campaigns came new in the box with them. It takes a long time to develop that stuff.

Those graphs don't show anything except who's playing that bought it on Steam. But it's not sales data. If you want a simple metric of sucess just look at the fact they decided to make another game. Now that formula might not be exactly what you want and many of us would like to see improvements. But people usually don't replicate failure. Therefore someone must feel BoS is sucessful enough to warrant repeating.

Now if you ask me if I'd rather have:

A. The Battle of Moscow
B. A Career Mode for Battle of Stalingrad.

I'd pick B. But I don't have to make a living selling these games.

Read the whole thread. Got a headache now.
Having met Jason in person I know he is nowhere near the ***hole that is being claimed by some in this thread.

If you have the time stop by Planes of Fame this Saturday Jason. It's event day, the SBD is the featured aircraft, and we can catch up.


Wheels

I don't think anyone is saying is an #%&*$# personally. I think people are talking about his business skills, and communication with people who purchased this last product.

There were neighbors of Ted Bundy that thought he was a "nice, handsome, friendly man" too. Does not mean what he did was not horrible. Same with a few hedge fund managers, and Ponzi scheme azzhats.

Not comparing him to a murderer but you get the point. His "nice" personality does not flow in his business. I also have never seen someone play the victim so much either. Aside from his wackjob outlook on a "good" product, I assume he is a nice enough guy.