homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation DCS World Eno's Firehouse and Crew's Hollo Pointe Server Lounge

No Sir,

The curve on this sim is not steep at all IMHO. It's just some more switches to operate and a few more things to remember. Yes, it's a challenge when you are first starting out, no doubt! But what I am trying to convey is that in any sim, the steep curve has to do with flying correctly and discipline, and this has nothing to do with your weapons, systems operation or anything else for the most part other than stick and rudder and navigation skills (this means being fluent in pilot math, maps, aircraft characteristics, knowing your climb and fuel schedules etc)

There are different ways to play a sim. Most people just get in to it and enjoy it, they learn a bunch of stuff along the way. Some are a bit more serious about it, some a bit less, but in general it's all very similar. Then there's the 'air force way', and there you run into a cliff to climb - that is the part I am talking about personally. I'm not claiming I'm any good at it, but it's what I try to do personally.

Also, I'm again only typing this because I like to watch myself type - don't take any of this personally, it's a perspective and presentation of different approaches. It's your sim, so none of them is wrong - I might type a lot about how things should be done or how I do them, but it's not intended to belittle anyone. People just have different ways of enjoying the same thing

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not - the smiley face at the end doesn't make it clear - but you say that the learning curve is not steep and then go on to describe exactly how it is steep (and how steep it is). For those of us who have not invested hundreds of hours, both are steep, albeit independent, learning curves: a) flying correctly and disipline; or b) weapons, systems operation, navigation (pilot math, maps, aircraft characteristics, climb and fuel schedules, etc).

I appreciate your perspective, however, and critical feedback can help push you to keep moving up the curve, gently sloped or not.

Skate- firehouse will be moving to the beta as soon as possible.



And as for the curve... I think I know what GG is talking about and I think it's relative to how we approach the various challenges of the sim.

The sim doesn't demand that you learn it all at once. You aren't thrown in the cockpit and expected to learn everything in one day- yes, that would be very steep indeed... especially through the manual or SP experience only.

Most of us are able to capture the basics and gradually (I'm going on 2 years and I'm still learning) accumulate more knowledge about what the sim offers. I think that's where the curve becomes less daunting- is in acknowledging that we don't need to know it all before we enjoy the sim.

The curve is, in my opinion anyway, very gradual... provided you spread it out as long as you need to preserve your enjoyment of the platform. It can be as steep as you want, but have the courage to take your time.

The new patch feature (namely for the Huey) look pretty damn good. I will be hopping on for some fun when it's released

Edit: derp, saw the beta is already released

The curve is steep when you dont like ever dying once.

It just takes time and repetition to execute the various systems in the heat of battle where the reaction is accurate and quick. The systems themselves are not terribly difficult to understand.

I like being very well versed in the aircraft so a month in I am certainly not even close.

This server has a great group so I cant wait to fly with you guys.

Thanks, GG. I definitely take all you said in the proper context.

Downloading open beta at this time. Firehouse will be locked and TS3 use will be mandatory. Passwords will be available through admins and TS3.

I'll have to start hanging out there more

I am not being sarcastic, but I am obviously being unclear, and that's because my post is predicated on a bunch of assumptions that I will clear up right now - I hope.

In my experience, when most people refer to 'mastering the plane' or 'learning curve' in these sims, it refers to the avionics, particularly operating all the nifty things like data-links, weapons employment etc. Personally I don't find this part steep at all - yes, it can take a bit of time but it isn't particularly hard.

On the other hand, no one really learns the core of skill of a fighter pilot (And note, it doesn't matter what you're flying. This stuff is the same whether you're flying a cessna, a Su-27 or a B-1) which is BFM. BFM is hard, and everything you do in the air is based on BFM. And that has both steep learning curve, a lengthy learning curve, and a rapid decline if you stop doing it (you can get back in the saddle quickly once you know stuff, but it still takes 2-3 sorties if you haven't done it for say a month).

Importantly, BFM is also hard to teach, so I'm not blaming people for not doing it or not knowing what it is. Most people think it's dogfighting ... but BFM is pretty much everything, from take-off to formation flying to BVR/ACM/WVR and your landing.

Navigation is a separate subject and also important. It requires plenty of pilot math, and is intertwined with combat, since you actually have to navigate with respect to a target and its defenses - and this includes air to air where your target is mobile in a 3D environment.

Lack of those core two skills results in a lack of or mediocre SA, same for mutual support, and thus for combat ability.

Mind you, mediocre SA and mutual support often beats no SA and no mutual support, at least against human opponents. But when you run into someone who's good at those things, and they make good decisions (which doesn't mean they can't do it wrong and get blasted in the process), you'll usually be feeling like you're being steam-rolled.

Also keep in mind that my background in this game is competitive A2A so the perspective is a little different, but like I said above, all this stuff applies to all aircraft.

Also, again I'm not looking down on anyone, though I'm sure I come off this way. It's a different perspective on what you want to get out of the sim. The stuff I've presented here merely gives you an idea that there's something more, or I think that's what it should do.

Often the curse of someone who knows what they're talking about

Kidding of course.

Nice thing about our group is if you want to fly to spec... you can- there will always be someone who will want to push their knowledge forward. If you want to take things less seriously but still demonstrate a love of the sim (though we all occasionally hate it) then you're always welcome.

I'm really anxious to see what 1.2.7 has in store!

Ok. I think I understand. The learning curve of systems operation is fairly straight forward ... though remembering that might not be, but that's not a learning curve.

BFM, which is an extension of formation flying, or I should say formation flying is a subset of BFM, is a difficult curve and is very difficult to learn and teach in both our virtual environment and the outside world. It certainly seems that way when it becomes evident that not everyone is cut out to be, or can be trained as, a competent BFM pilot.

I think that is what you are saying and I agree.

I remember dipping into this when I was playing World War II online and reading a lot about BFM.



I would ask about this, however. Of course I might not be getting your points mentioned above (re: BFM) but I am drawing a blank when Navigation comes up and how it is intertwined with combat, target/defenses. 3D combat. Other than knowing which way break (ie: don't break into enemy territory or you make a bad situation worse) I am missing this point/knowledge.

So is your server switching to 1.2.7? If it is, then I may do the Steam beta thing instead of having two copies.

Do the two copies. There's going to be a release/open beta ecosystem now.

I'll just try to give the simplest examples I can, but consider bullseye reports from AWACS. If you're not at bullseye, how do you know where the bandits are in relation to you, and where they're going?

This is fix-to-fix nav and a bunch of pilot math.

If you're in an air to air fight, and you need to split-notch (it's like a pincer, but in the notch) a target with your wingman, your bandit won't be on the radar. How do you know when to split-notch and for how long, and what heading do you come back to? How much closer will the bandit be? How far will you be from your wingman? How/where does the spiked aircraft drag? How do you communicate about all this with your wingman throughout the maneuver? Why a split-notch instead of a pincer?

If you're flying a CAP station, how long should your racetrack legs be? Why/why not?

Some of this stuff is pre-planned, some is done on the fly.

There can be more complex examples which begin to tax your SA and mental agility even harder.

Hollo Pointe will remain on v126 for now -- and may stay that way through the holidays.

I am in the middle of a new mission development, and Hollo Pointe has been running well with its usual smaller level of client activity.

Any mission requests?



So we will have Eno's Firehouse on v127, and HP on v126.

1.2.7 is loaded- same pw as before. Check out the net speed options!

First prominent issue has been brought up over on the ED side.

I Figured the A-10C's BIT Test Not Starting on Start Up would be a bigger issue for us.

In some respects, yes... but I only saw it the once- while there were quite a number of mentions of the stutters.

I wasn't sure if the absence of the cursor meant that you couldn't still click the rocker the proper number of times and still get function?

But yes, that is another issue mentioned. Perhaps someone could test that out?

I can't while I'm at work.

I will test tonight/tomorrow some more, but the report so far is you have to Bypass CDU Startup BIT, as well as Others(?).

Will tinker tonight to see how much problems it gives startup.

as for the stutters; If I have the problem tonight I'll prolly Log My CPU Freq., Usage, and other system items, including Windows Process Management.

Simply turn your IFFCC on and all goes well otherwise, you don't have to do any workaround while the IFFCC bit check is broken.