Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
I think the Russian air defences are a lot more capable than the UK's air defences of the 2012 olympics. Rapier is a pretty poor system.
Air Defense is usually measured by its effectiveness... ... 0 attackers against Rapier means 100% success.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Rapier entered service in 1971. It was designed to directly hit the target, so it had a tiny 1.4kg warhead and no proximity fuse. Its maximum range and altitude were only slightly better than shoulder launched SAMs. And it was optically guided, so could only be used during the day time and clear weather. Pretty terrible eh? But what can you expect from a light weight, highly mobile system?... except it wasn't highly mobile, it was a towed system that took a long time to set up.
By 1979, they realised it would be a good idea if the Rapier could be fired at targets even if it was dark, foggy or the aircraft were above clouds, so they added a Radar to a 1/3rd of them.
It was used to defend the British army during the Falklands war, but it was a fragile system, and broke down frequently. The Rapier attacked many Argentine aircraft during the Falklands war. And initially it was claimed it achieved 14 kills and 6 probable kills.
But after the war, they looked closely at what was claimed, and decided the real numbers were, 1 confirmed kill, 2 probable kills and 2 possible kills.
Due to its poor performance during 1982, they quickly upgraded the system, and by quickly, I mean 1995. They put in a bigger warhead, and a proximity fuse, and increased its range by 20%
Rapier entered service in 1971. It was designed to directly hit the target, so it had a tiny 1.4kg warhead and no proximity fuse. Its maximum range and altitude were only slightly better than shoulder launched SAMs. And it was optically guided, so could only be used during the day time and clear weather. Pretty terrible eh? But what can you expect from a light weight, highly mobile system?... except it wasn't highly mobile, it was a towed system that took a long time to set up.
By 1979, they realised it would be a good idea if the Rapier could be fired at targets even if it was dark, foggy or the aircraft were above clouds, so they added a Radar to a 1/3rd of them.
It was used to defend the British army during the Falklands war, but it was a fragile system, and broke down frequently. The Rapier attacked many Argentine aircraft during the Falklands war. And initially it was claimed it achieved 14 kills and 6 probable kills.
But after the war, they looked closely at what was claimed, and decided the real numbers were, 1 confirmed kill, 2 probable kills and 2 possible kills.
Due to its poor performance during 1982, they quickly upgraded the system, and by quickly, I mean 1995. They put in a bigger warhead, and a proximity fuse, and increased its range by 20%
I just don't think it's a very good system
That's why we have Eurofighters (& previously Tornado) The west has never really pursed the SAM route to the same extent the Soviets & Russians have.
Its not the bullet with your name on it you have to worry about. But the one addressed: "To Whom It May Concern"
the UK had the Thunderbird until 1977? and Bloodhound till 1991. Both long range, high altitude systems.
But now, without the RAF, the army couldn't even shoot down a WW1 Zeppelin, since the British Army now only has the Javelin and Starstreak, and neither of those can go over 10,000ft. So much for being the best military in Europe. :P
Still, fingers crossed the UK will have CAMM in 2016, which is much more capable than the Rapier!
Rapier had its fair share of mismanagement during the Falkland War.
- Blindfire radars were cleverly left in the UK, caused by logistics. - Second line repair equipment was left on Ascension (all optical tracking repair vehicles). - Planned practice firing at Ascension was cancelled. - Rapier SAM sites were located on hilltops, so they had to shoot downwards. (same mistake as the Syrians done in the Bekaa valley) - During Argentine attacks, there were so many British Helos around, that IFF was always RED. (they had to rely on visual ID only)
During the conflict, 61 missiles were fired, and killed 1 Dagger-A (Grupo 6, Rio Grande, C-436, Teniente Juan Doming Bernhart, killed during ejection). (25% of missiles went out of control after launch, and 60% were launched as deterrent - out of range)
In my opinion, Rapier was a capable system... ... but was stripped from its radar, and maintenance, plus were mismanaged badly during the conflict.
Oerlikon 35mm with Skyguard - 1 Harrier FRS1 (800Sqn, HMS Hermes, XZ450, "50", Lt N Taylor, KIA - no ejection) Roland - 1 Harrier FRS1 (801Sqn, HMS Invincible, "08", XZ456, Lt I Mortimer, ejected succesfully)
Last edited by Hpasp; 12/10/1309:04 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Why now? they are in Greece from more than 10 years...
They were expecting the Turks arrival in any minute, so they spared the missiles for them...
(Czech/Slovak army still not fired any S-300 missile since fielding it in 1988... ... what about the Bulgarians?)
Last edited by Hpasp; 12/13/1306:52 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Why now? they are in Greece from more than 10 years...
They were expecting the Turks arrival in any minute, so they spared the missiles for them...
(Czech/Slovak army still not fired any S-300 missile since fielding it in 1988)
Does any body think that you can even fligh close to (Kreta) s300 clustered with TOR M1 and behind them two wings of F-16 bl52+adv supported by ground 3d radars and AWACS in net? Friendly air forces just ...beg for common exercises ...
Firings took place 10 years because the Russian system does not have the ability of destruct command in case of emergency ,prerequisite in order to fire,like all west air defense systems,but this was overcame with same kind of risk.Our Chief of Joint Staff is air defender !
Firings took place 10 years because the Russian system does not have the ability of destruct command in case of emergency ,prerequisite in order to fire,like all west air defense systems,but this was overcame with same kind of risk.Our Chief of Joint Staff is air defender !
Best regards ePap
Hi, ePap! Does Greek's goverment negotiate with Russia for using testing range in Ashuluk, Telemba or other? Do you have some info about it?
Firings took place 10 years because the Russian system does not have the ability of destruct command in case of emergency ,prerequisite in order to fire,like all west air defense systems,but this was overcame with same kind of risk.Our Chief of Joint Staff is air defender !
Best regards ePap
Hi, ePap! Does Greek's goverment negotiate with Russia for using testing range in Ashuluk, Telemba or other? Do you have some info about it?
During the initial training of the s300 PMU1 crews, firings took place in Russia for training and test of missile batch under delivery.
Please also keep in mind that there no necessity of real firing in order to have good training and exellent weapon performances for systems like this !
Please also keep in mind that there no necessity of real firing in order to have good training and exellent weapon performances for systems like this !
I'm sorry, but not agreed.... Thanks for the info, anyway....
Please also keep in mind that there no necessity of real firing in order to have good training and exellent weapon performances for systems like this !
I'm sorry, but not agreed.... Thanks for the info, anyway....
There is a particular reason not to agree ? I can refer to tenths of weapon systems which have no real firings for personel training ...
There is a particular reason not to agree ? I can refer to tenths of weapon systems which have no real firings for personel training ...
Just IMHO... I am not a specialist... How about your experience? Did you feel different when do live firing?
In SHORAD you "feel" the target .It is a matter of "you or him" but you can move or switch off... In medium range like HAWK ,there is a lot of respiration , waiting there ... But in Long range s300 covered by TOR M1,you are looking for engagement ...
Of course live firings are good of moral and a greate opportunity to visit Creta (NAMFI) and Chania city,especially in summer time ...
