homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation Falcon 4.0 Mission 2 Incident Report

So this will be the start of a series where I try to find out where the hell I went wrong. Mission 2: Where's the ILS?!?

I perform Mission 2 and have a successful takeoff. I decide that since the nav system have a course plotted out, I will follow the course back to my base. Perfect. So the base is at wp7 and I'm following along to 7 but as I'm approaching I get no accurate ILS information at all. The localizer bar remains pinned to the side. It doesn't seem to matter which way I approach the runway (and belive me, I tried from all angles). Now I'm purposely not using TACAN because it is my believe that the NAV system should take me all the way home. And it does, but no matter what I do, I can't get any localizer information.

Did I forget to do something or is there a bug with the training mission - was all that course stuff fake and I wasn't supposed to go around for the structured joy ride? I ended up declaring an emergency at it seemed that only once was tower able to correctly vector me in, but I'm certain that much of that had to do with my inability to follow her orders correctly.


Edit: I saw another topic on the pinned localizer - so I'll add some more information. When tower told me to land on runway 20 right, I did set my course knob. I believe I would set it to 200. Now here is what I have a strange question about that. Would I set the knob for 200, or the *opposite* of that number (sort of a to:from question I guess)?

IIRC the in training mission you takeoff from one end but tower calls you to land on the opposite end. So if you took off on 02R I think your final would be 20L. Try coming in from the opposite direction.

As far as your course knob, I perfer to set it as my current heading, so if tower is telling me 20L I would set it as 200. I think that is all in perference though

Good Luck.

Did you set the nav knob to ILS?

@Panther: I tried both directions numerous times and just could not get the ILS to register. It also didn't seem to matter whether I followed ATC or went in on my own.

@Blackbird: Yes it was, NAV/ILS. I could see the ILS bars on both my hud and the ADI, they just formed a permanent L shape - occasionally I got glideslope information, but even then only occasionally.

I'm wondering if I just should bother trying to land in the mission. It did say "Takeoff" as opposed to "Takeoff and Landing". I just thought it would be nice to fly a pattern.

Air Source Knob in wrong setting?? ( maybe a stupid question but... ) What about your altitude??

If you are a little bit high or low, the bars are not centred too.

I tried landing with ILS in some TE's, but i didn't have any trouble

* and if you got vectors to runway 20R, you should set the course to 200

I did set my course for 200 but what you said about the altitude is interesting. So I may not be getting a correct localizer bar because I'm at the wrong altitude? My alt was pretty sloppy each time because I began to get tunnel vision on "where's the localizer" and I never considered altitude. I spent a lot of time under a thousand because of the sloppiness. I remember ATC ordering 2000 feet but even though I tried that I would forget about alt entirely. That may very well be my problem. I may have to give that a try tonight.

Thank you all for your responses. We'll see how I do and I'll try to remember to post back with what my results are. After completing my next mission - you'll probably hear from me again. I'll call that Mission 3 Incident Report. It might make quite a good series for other new people such as myself.

One other thing that could be wrong is your TACAN channel could be set incorrectly. Double check prior to commiting to flight what the channel is for your homeplate. Once you are in the pit press "1" on the ICP and look for the number in the lower right corner of the DED. Make sure it matches the number on the 2d map. If you need any help check my tutorial at http://www.pantherden.net/tacannavigation.htm

Thank you for the link. I remember reading your guide before and it is very well done - your entire site has become another goldmine of information for me over the last few months while I've gotten geared up for flying Falcon. Would the TACAN channel apply even when under the NAV mode? If so then I am completely confused about the different navigation modes then.

I just tried Training Mission #2 and the localizer for runway 02 and 20 did not work. They both were pegged to either the left of right sides. So I then flew to Osan and the ILS worked as advertised there.


Edit:

Oh and by the way, you can use TACAN regardless of what mode you are in. On the compass you will see an arrow pointing to the TACAN station and you will also see the distance to the TACAN station. It will show up no matter if you are in NAV, AA, or AG.

I didn't get a chance tonight to test altitude because my cockpit had a bit of a meltdown. By the time I got my ICP and MFDs programmed again it was too late to start. Hopefully tomorrow night.

Try to create a TE and see if it works there... Maybe there is a little bug in the training mission. I haven't tried the training mission yet, but as soon as i got some spare time i'll try it out for you

Looks like the training mission is FUBAR or is it SNAFU? Any way you can create a simple Takeoff sortie in a TE and the ILS "should" work.

Just tried the mission and the ILS worked fine for me. Tower brought me in 20 L, with me flying position #1.

In the Balkans Training Mission #2 the ILS worked fine, but in Korea (Seosan) it didn't work for me at all. I even tried Training Mission #3 in Korea, then flew to Seosan and it didn't work.

One thing to check, is if ILS is turned on. Hit Priority button 1 [T-ILS] and check the top line of the DED. If it's off, use the 4 way dobber switch, to the right [seq] to turn it on.

Hopefully I can try tonight if my cockpit holds up.

Create a TE? I can barely *fly* this thing much less create mission for it Maybe I can find one.

Corsair8x, go to Tactical Engagement and click on Mission Editor. Zoom in on the map and right click near one of the bases. Click on "Add Flight." That will bring up a box with a list of options such as AC, Role, Size, Squadron, Air Base, Target and Skill. Set these up as you wish, and then click OK. You will then see your flight plan on the map with your AC already in the air. Just set the time back until your plane is over your base. Click save, then you can fly your mission.

Thanks for the crasher course on editing a mission - never looked in there before. I can maybe make some training missions that are more to my liking.

I reflew Training Mission 2, but this time over the Balkans and the ILS was fine for me - I wasn't fine with the ILS, but that is a different story It was also nicer because the visibility was great so I could actually make out the runway which helped a great deal with lineup and did a pretty good landing. I may have come down a little too hard, but overall I was pretty happy. I might go back to Korea again to see the difference in ILS - all my settings were the same between theatres too.

I've been thinking about what a previous poster had mentioned about TACAN working even when it wasn't selected. It may pay to just have it working anyway. So a couple questions that just popped in my head and being at work my manual is nowhere nearby:

1. Is TACAN already set for your homeplate when you take off, or do you have to set that? It looked like in Training Mission 2 it was set for the base but is that always the case?

2. Does the course deviation line work on the HSI when in NAV mode? I know that the bearing pointer does, but I don't remember the line doing anything - not that I was adjusting the course knob until I was on final with the runway. When I'm looking at the HSD I see the line that indicates my course between waypoints, but it seems like looking at the HSI would be even more accurate - if it actually works that way.

So I figured out what I did wrong, and I'm pretty bloody embarassed by it - and I think I have my wingman to thank. There are 8 waypoints, but the 7th takes you right to the runway. So I'm thinking that I should be landing at that point, but no ILS. But I was jumping gun. I should have went to 8, and on the way called in for clearance. Then I would have had to turn to the closest end of the runway - which would have been the correct end, the very opposite end that I was trying to land on. I would have been at the correct height to get my ILS information too.

I realized this when I called emergency between 6 and 7, and then went straight in. I totally messed up by trying to case the messed up ILS (which wouldn't work as it was the wrong end) and was told to try again by ATC. My Wingman gets clearance. I had finally found the runway, overflew its entire length, and was flying away from it but in line with it. Who do I see in the distance about 1500 feet up, my wingman, on final. So I kept going until I was about 10 miles downrange, quick turn up around 2000', and there's my localizer. Still chased the needle too much because I'm a feeb but everything was working and I landed again hard and just managed to get it down in time to do a rapid turn off the very last taxi way.

So mystery solved. Not a bug, not conspiracy, not an equipment malfunction - just an impatient pilot who thinks he knows what's going on. So thank you all for your assistance - I think I get Mission 2 now. I may do this one a couple times more. Maybe in a few days there will be a Mission 3 Indident Report, or Mission 4. It might make a nice little series for this particular topic though

...and that makes all the difference...

From the manual...

"To activate the reception of the ILS signal, you must first call the Tower using the "Inbound" radio command."



From page 407 in the manual....

"For a perfect ILS approach, work with the Command Steering mode: While receiving an ILS signal, use the DCS to get to the CMD STRG section, then press Mode-Select (M-SEL 0) to activate Command Steering. This will put your ILS in CMD STRG mode, with the tadpole in the HUD indicating an 45 degree intercept path. Just put the FPM onto the tadpole and follow this direction. As soon as you are within 3 degrees of the approach path, the tadpole will move off to the side indicating a turn to the final approach."

... more info in the manual.