homepage Forums Land & Armor Combat Tactical Simulations - General Extraction Shooters

Sorry, DB, I meant re-pops as in the enemy re-popping/respawning in the area cleaned out previously by other players before you arrive. I imagine you can time the respawn of enemies to get an idea when the respawn wave will hit.

EFT- trying to pare down the amount of weight my main enters the fight carrying. That's a trial and a half. Do I really need that many of X? Fun. I can hear Elias behind me..."You're humping way too much, troop, don't need half this sh*t..."

I almost didn't make it out of a map I was in, having found a jerry can of petrol which I was determined to lug back (hideout generator runs on fuel). Was engaged near the extract site and managed to take out all three attackers. Didn't think that I'd been hit so was surprised when my character started to black-out. Ended up it was exertion, so I ate and drank, rested briefly. Enough to get me over the line but barely. Really need to pay more attention to that. Lol.

Forgive me, I misunderstood.

Re-population occurs on a 15 or 20 minute timer, and not sure if continued player presence might delay the re-pop, but I suspect so or you'd be looting a cleared town and have a NPC spawn next to you and lights out. This holds true for both NPCs and loot.


Yes indeed, I'm always doing this. Yesterday I made a stash pass and I'm like .222 rounds? I'll never shoot that rifle. Gone. Hollow points? I'll never load those again. Gone. AK-74? Good gun but it doesn't shoot 5.56 does it? Gone. Three sets of binoculars? One's gone. All those front and rear sights I've removed from the M4s? Gone. It's a never-ending battle of Tetris culling.

LOL. We call it 'Inventory Tetris' and it really is.

You posted a video of Tarkov game play and it didn't escape me that the player making the video spent more than half his time in his inventory screen! I was thinking, that's nuts. GZW is not as bad, Only a few reasons to access inventory in the field, reloading mags, or swapping optics, eating and drinking. I only do inventory management at base or an outpost.

I bought supporter's edition and it gives me the biggest possible stash right out of the gate. In Gray Zone it's just a shortcut, as any player can get the same size, but expansions are gated by player level. Hit levels 10, 20, 30 and get stash increases. Each edition of the game cuts down on this and you get the bigger inventory space straight away. When the game wipes that will be nice. No idea how often that happens in Gray Zone, speculation is the next wipe will be in October but I wouldn't know.

Ooo wipes. The only part of Tarkov that gets wiped fairly regularly is the PvP game with the PvE game not touched. I dislike wipes, but it is what it is. I think they wipe the PvP in Tarkov in order to keep it competitive and fun. In the PvE game it's basically you against the game so they don't wipe it as the progression gets harder.

In EFT when I'm on a scav character I'd say that I do a lot of inventory Tetris as you don't usually get decent sized packs/bags to stuff what you scavenge in to. I play more inventory Tetris on my main character if I've managed to screw myself and am trying to rebuild an inventory due to a bunch of demises in a row. Found a massive rucksack on a sortie to Interchange, dropped by the random-supply aircraft. So that will make it easier to carry stuff out. That said, encumbrance is still a thing to worry about and being overloaded affects so much. It's a container that'll definitely need to be insured.

Yes that's my understanding too, Tarkov only wipes PvP, and for noobs that's the best time to get in. Or just play PvE Zone and avoid it.

In Gray Zone I spend most of my time doing missions. These are usually some sort of fetch quest, or kill everyone at the target location, but it's still fairly varied, with deliveries, investigations, recon missions and so on. Completing these is the best way to level up your character and the vendors. But there's still a bit of a loot goblin in me, so I haven't ignored that side, seeking out good spots to check regularly. One spanner in the works is that other players can beat you to it, and sometimes you check and get good stuff, and other times it is empty or they have left the bad stuff. First I needed to figure out where to get the good stuff, but where the enemy was not so strong. There are three top loot locations in Gray Zone -- Fort Narith, Tiger Bay and Midnight Sapphire, but these are end game areas, very dangerous and better done in a squad. Outside of those spots there are outposts spread around the map.

Outposts act like bases. You can access inventory, trade with vendors and do everything you can at the main base, except there are no helo pads at outposts. There are both minor and major outposts, and each faction is competing for control. At major outposts you can find good containers, so the key for me was to work out which of these major outposts was the least competitive. Then I might have a reliable loot spot. Each of the three factions has a main base at the edge of the map, about equidistant to one another around the island. So the outposts farthest from the other factions was a good place to start. And since I can see the players in my own faction, I can see on the map if any friendlies have been there recently. And since it's the least convenient for the other factions (who I cannot see on the map) I reasoned this would be a likely loot target for me.

There are no LZ's all that close, so it's a bit of a trek from the LZ to the outpost, but on my first look I got a crate with two M700s and a MCX. One of the 700s had a very short, integrated suppressor barrel. Both had top end scopes. The MCX had a longer barrel than my MCX so I used it to upgrade that weapon. I went back three or four times so far and each time hit the jackpot. I said earlier that GZW is a better shooter than a looter, but every now and then you can find some really good gear. Over the last two visits I got both of these 1-MOA rifles. Fully decked out DDM4 (with 60-round mag!) and M4A1, both with 20" barrels and suppressors, though I changed the scope on the Colt. When the wipe does come I know where to go

It's been a while since a game got its hooks in like this. I've dropped 130 hours already, hit level 21 and passed 1000 kills, with four deaths -- yeah I died again -- for a smooth K/D of 250+. That's a lot of shooting, and the gun play is really good in this game. The ballistic and penetration models feel great. The medical system is tied in, and you can wing and wound the AI, cause them to retreat to administer aid, or bleed out over several minutes. Firefights are not digital affairs, there's this element of doubt. Did he go down? He might pop back up having patched himself, or he might have expired and is long dead as you keep peeking, wondering. It's cool.

Gray Zone isn't unique as I've seen it in other games, but you can combine magnifiers with red dots and have the magnifier flip out of the way to use the red dot, or swing it back in place to have a scope. Love this. I found a MP5 with this setup and took it out for a spin. Lots of fun. This MP5 was fully tricked out with every imaginable attachment, and 9mm is usually quite poor. But GZW has Libra Snail ammunition which is amazing, plus some P+ rounds which do OK. Ammunition is king and even a MP5 can be viable with the right rounds. Libra Snail is very expensive however, $11 per round, compared to $4 for green-tip 5.56. I do keep the Glock loaded with LS for one-tap headshots on unawares.

I never feel like I'm playing an EA game, or an 'alpha' game whatever that is supposed to mean. Gray Zone already feels like a full game, and looking forward to what they have in store.

Incursion Red River is still being worked on and may yet be a decent PVE/co-op extraction shooter too. I found this video which inspired me to play a bit more IRR...balancing my weird infatuation with EFT. I know DB had enjoyed his time playing IRR. So here goes:

Yes, Red River is good. I like it. The shooting looks so good in that video. That player does it much differently than I do. He is standing out in the open, shooting full auto (and doing a good job of it)

I am semi-auto corner peeking and crouched, pretty much all the time. When the boots are on the ground I think Red River stacks up well against the other games in this genre. It needs content and more fluff around the edges I think. For example I'm not a big fan of how the missions are structured. But the AI is great, the weapons and shooting are too, and the looting is good. Next update will add a new map, with new faction mechanics I think, plus a number of new weapons. It's a good game now and will get much better as long as they don't veer off in to a zombie game or something.

One of the things that drew me to Gray Zone is the emergent co-op I've mentioned a few times. I love it, and it fits me perfectly. I like playing lone wolf, it's sorta my thing. But I'm not anti-social. It's more about how playing with others is a drag. Things take longer, time is spent on the other player's goals, issues and problems the other players experience become your problems. But above it all I like being on my own, matching my skill and wits alone.To have it all hanging out there with no one close by to save me if I get caught.

At the same time it's a lot of fun to play with others, to join forces and take down a target. When each player is good and holding up his end it can be a magical thing, professional, lethal, efficient.

Gray Zone straddles this line so nicely. I've hit level 21 and this is getting in to the later stages, the high-end areas of the map, which hold the best loot and toughest enemies. Rather than lone wolf it last night I came up with plans, then watched the map to see when and if any players on the map were going about it too. By making fast use of the helicopter transport I could airlift there in minutes and join in. In this way, myself and a number of random strangers teamed up to clear some towns and I could complete missions and objectives that would have been hard on my own. It was beautiful really, and this is where a game like this truly shines.

We all helped each other, covered advances, bounded, cleared corners, shared keys to locked buildings, and more than once shot bad guys giving others a hard time.

It's so much fun to do that I wish I had a partner, a like-minded individual around my level where we work as one. But until then, emergent co-op fills the void nicely.

On the gear side, I mentioned earlier my affection for the Specter assault scope, and now I like the Razor 1-6 even more. It does have that +/- .5 increment changes to magnification, but it has the reticle I want, fine crosshairs with a tiny dot. So I've put Razors on my longer barreled AR-15 variants and the Specter on the short-barrels which I run when I expect to be fighting indoors. The Razor requires a 30mm mount, and the combination does weigh twice as much as the Specter (+.4 kg more),.

I just can't do PUGs anymore, regardless of whether it's an FPS or an MMO. I just don't have the patience. Because my luck, there is always That Guy. Best of the best and lets you know it all match long. Some deity's gift to the game. But when you look at the match leaderboard inevitably That Guy is floating at the bottom in most categories, and busy blaming everyone else. So done with that. I also prefer organised play, working within a team for the team. using a semblance of tactics, not running willy-nilly like a bunch of half-wits or little kids running around the house screaming "BANG! Yer ded! D.E.D Ded!" "Nope, you missed me haha".

My problem is I've played FPS games close to a milsim level and that's what I enjoy the most, and did hardcore organised raiding in a couple of MMO's back in the day. The FPS clan I was part of in the 2000's (until about 2016ish) used to organise and run sessions (called The Big Scrum) in games like Battlefield 1942 where we took on other clans from the community-- us versus all of them, and all for fun. These sessions were fairly organised in the military sense- we formed sections, squads, platoons, squadrons etc and played that way (still rather loosely and without anyone barking out orders etc). These were successful because it did what was intended- brought the community together in a tighter manner. So, for me, a preference for a generalised facsimile of real tactics/organisation with good communication is why PUGs are usually more of a PITA.

If you are looking for a good set of videos that really show the fun of organised play, I recommend any of Dslyecxi's Shac Tac videos. That was a group I wished my work schedule would have worked out with . Anyway, here's one to check out:

What's PUG, pick up game?

This is a bit different I think. I can drift in and out. Not tied in with any squad, just attacking the same area as the others in the vicinity. Sometimes we loosely coordinate with VOIP. In the harder areas you'll find few noobs, so the players are mostly good players, well-equipped. Suppressors, night vision, scopes and so on, to maximize effectiveness. If I spot a level 40 or whatever, I know I can follow in his wake, or take up a flank and be confident that player will do a good job, clearing his sector, shooting well, holding up his end. It works nicely, in most cases. Other times you look around and wonder, hey where did he go? Suddenly realize you advanced thinking your flank was covered and see he is long gone and you're in deep, alone.

Another way I have fun is to spot a nooby noob in the starter area and shepherd him. I'll chopper in and keep my distance, watching over my sheep. Let him take the kills, but if he suddenly is overwhelmed, or someone gets behind him I'll take the target out. I have good scopes and effective suppressors and often times I think the lamb has no clue I'm there taking out his threats. But it's fun to observe and to help the new guy survive his first encounters with the enemy. He will go in to a building to loot it and I'll be 100 meters away on overwatch. A few days ago the noob came out of the building, standing, unsure and low SA and was immediately taken under fire by gomers farther along the road. I dropped both targets with single headshots and I don't think the new player knew what had just happened, but the gunfire stopped so he went on his way, crouching now.

I'm at work so watched parts of that video during lunch break. No sound but caught snippets of the action and I can see the appeal of playing in a platoon like that (they needed two chinooks to carry everyone) but it's not really my jam. It's cool that players do this all the same.

My bad, in the initial draft I had written PUG (Pick up group) but in the subsequent edit I accidently removed it. So yeah a pick-up group is where players just show up and play with or against each other...and may or may not know each other. Kinda like playing hoops in the park and suddenly a bunch of people show and a game starts.

Thanks. I'd either want to be in a squad of like-minded players, or play solo. But I don't want to commit, to sign up to any. Pick up groups as you say, wouldn't be my thing, except when it was I guess. Fun can be found in all sorts of ways, and mainly it comes down to the players themselves. How they conduct themselves, their skills, how generous they are, how team-minded.

Sometimes I hop on a random chopper that another player has called in, just to see where it takes us. I had unlocked some late game LZs this way early on. Just climb aboard and tag along.

There is a thread in the Steam forum for IRR asking which is your favorite weapon, and I had to go with the suppressed AK-12 I've been running. 10.5 recoil with a Specter on it. Good rifle. I have a nice, tricked out AK-12 in Gray Zone too but no suppressor for it, or I have not worked out how to screw it on yet. I'll go loud in the starter region, but I want a can outside the wire.

Got a fully decked out suppressed Mossberg 590 shotgun in my good loot spot last night. Loaded it with sabot rounds and shot some gomers and man that is a powerful weapon, or that ammunition is especially lethal, which is actually the case. But then I sold it when I was done shooting the gomers, just to test it out. Shotguns aren't my thing usually.

I had a look at the Steam charts for the four extraction shooters I play(ed)

Tarkov is easily the top, with a 24-hour peak at 28k
Gray Zone is next with 4k
Red River was at 277 (not k, just 277)
Vostok was 485

Kinda shocking how Red River is so low in player count. Gotta get the word out!

That's interesting- the figures I mean. It's my understanding these games are pretty niche to start with (I could be wrong of course) but a peak of 28K is lower than what I thought it would be, although with EFT Steam is just a fairly recent added way to play. It would be interesting to see the figures from the other sources of play. As to IRR I find that surprising to see so few (mind you when I quit Synduality mech extraction shooter the pop was down to about 70 concurrent). Also I think iirc MicroProse released it's new shooter yesterday-ish so maybe that's pulled some peeps away? Interesting.

Those numbers fluctuate wildly, peaking around any updates, then falling off until the next one. Tarkov's best is 42k.

Gray Zone's peak is 72k! It was 43k in April, following the Spearhead update, dropping to 15k in May, before it fell off again.

Red River's best is 2k, but it's been very low since hitting 1,000 in April of 2024. One month averaged 35 players per day. This one has failed to catch on so far. The next update should spike the numbers I bet.

Last night I was watching the map in GZW and a pair of players assaulted the outpost I mentioned as my top loot spot. I know which building the container is in of course, and I watched their icons move around the base but they moved quickly through the building, and didn't pause at the container location and I'm sat there thinking, no, they've missed it? They were levels 10 and 11.

One left and the other hung around and I called a chopper from base and landed a klick away from the outpost and dashed there, running past the level 11 and finding a long-barrelled, tricked out MCX and a sweet M4 plus a MP7 (which is a really nice 4.6 SMG that you rarely see in shooters. Tarkov has it too). A level 11 would have loved to get their hands on rifles like this. I did not share the booty.

I took hits twice last night that could have killed me. And would have without first aid. M16s shooting green tip are brutal.

"Rarely" is doing some heavy lifting in my post. I searched it and AI says this. I don't play any of these games so of course didn't know

"The H&K MP7 is a staple Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) in shooter games, renowned for its extremely fast rate of fire, large magazine capacity, and exceptional mobility. It typically acts as a top-tier close-quarters weapon that trades long-range damage for devastatingly quick time-to-kill (TTK) up close.Its performance, availability, and optimal use vary by popular franchise:Call of Duty: The MP7 has been a dominant, laser-like SMG in titles like Modern Warfare (both original and reboots), Black Ops 2, and Warzone.

Players universally build it for pure mobility, aiming-down-sights (ADS) speed, and hip-fire accuracy to rush enemies.Counter-Strike: Appearing in both CS:GO and CS2, it is a meta economy weapon. It features a 30-round magazine, solid armor penetration, and controllable recoil, making it a popular force-buy choice.Battlefield: Featured in games like Battlefield 3, 4, and 6, the MP7 serves as a premier close-range Engineer weapon. Its high rate of fire allows players to out-gun enemies in tight corridors.Tactical Shooters:

In games like Ready or Not and Gray Zone Warfare, the MP7 is highly valued for its ability to shred suspects wearing heavy body armor while remaining lightweight enough to navigate tight indoor spaces.Arena & Hero Shooters: The MP7 or its weapon archetypes frequently appear in modern arena shooters (e.g., XDefiant) and hero shooters, prized for strafe speed and aggressive, run-and-gun playstyles."

So maybe not so rare. Very lightweight, high RoF, good penetration from the ammunition and top ergonmics for tight spaces. A perfect secondary if you need one

That does sound good. I'm a fan of versatile weapons to augment whatever my main weapon is...but I also tend to kit out for the purpose of whatever mission I'm doing. The more versatile the secondary weapon the better for my style.

Had an absolute laugher this morning. My son and I are on our main characters headed into Ground Zero because he had a key for a secret storage room. We spawned in fairly close to the objective so it was looking like an in/out sortie. We're moving to the objective with relative quiet and then get ambushed by a heavily armored BEAR unit (4 enemies). They start chucking frags at us and we scatter for cover because we're down in a low level of an office tower parking garage. The shrapnel was whizzing all around us and we dashed for an open door (electrical sub room, door opening outwards) with my son taking some heavy injury from both an smg and a frag. He was hit bad enough that he went through most of his medical supplies and I had to give him my surgical kit. Anyway, I'm watching the door when the enemy starts to advance on our position, and we could hear their voices as they converged on where we were. Talk about trapped. At the far end of the electrical room was a door leading to a corridor so that was our egress plan. Anyway, I popped one guy who peeked in, but his back-up soldier was now poking his Kalashnikov around the corner. My son, who'd finished bleeding on the floor, tossed an armed frag intending for it to land beyond the doorway. And that's when it really went to heck. The enemy operator simply started closing the door as the grenade sailed towards the once open doorway. "KOONK" I watch this thing bounce back and just as I'm hitting the deck it rolls under me. "FWOOOMPH". Ow. Crazy.

The AI closed the door to prevent the frag from reaching his position? What? That's amazing.

I had trouble yesterday when playing GZW and my PC started shutting down instantly and out of nowhere. No game makes my box run hotter than this one does. I attempted to dial down some graphics settings, verified files and a number of other changes, and finally took a box fan, opened the side of my case and pointed the fan on full blast right in to my PC and was able to play. My PC is liquid cooled, has tons of fans, but for whatever reason it is acting up now.

My top loot spot netted two L403A1 rifles, which shoot 5.56. These are better even than the DDM4s, with a significantly lower MOA. But I cannot get them to match the M4s recoil. In semi-auto, which is most shots I take, the L403A1 is better. I can get a lower MOA with a 13" L403A1 than I can with a 20" M4. That's a significant advantage, increasing ADS time, the weapon is lighter weight, and the ergonomics mean it is better all around, for both long-distance and in tight spaces. Good rifles.

Very nice!

The A.I. surprises me from time to time by doing something unexpectedly cool like that door closing. It's certainly more dynamic than I expected.

Has anyone tried "Road to Vostok"? It's by a small Finnish team, and I've heard it's pretty decent. There is a demo on Steam and I might download that to try sometime over the next couple of weeks.