homepage Forums SimHQ Community After Action Reports Apache Diary

For this mission, I'm going to consider this a type of "Graduation Exercise" mission since we've been through all of the tutorials. Prior to starting the full campaign though, I thought it would be a good idea to take a crack at one of the single missions. (Knowing full well that I'm still way behind on being familiar with the Apache's weapons and systems as presented in ARMA2). The mission is a single mission "Ground Attack" where we are tasked with destroying a convoy. We will start off at FOB Manhattan and proceed across the map to the designate strike location several kilometers to the west...



Doing some pre-mission recon (if you love maps like I do - ARMA is map heaven!) I can see some high terrain northeast of the strike zone where I plan to set up my observation hover...



The mission presumes you will fly as the pilot, but I wanted a taste of flying in the CP/G position in the AH-64D, so I order the other pilot out, climb into the CP/G position, and order him to the pilot position...





Unfortunately, you can't flip flop back and forth between Pilot and CP/G positions. You would normally choose to fly and control the weapons from the pilot's seat, but from that seat you can't access the Optical Relay Tube optics that allow you to closely zoom in for recon and targeting. I don't know that a workaround will exist for the AH-64D, but it would be cool to have the ability. In lieu of that, I think this helo is best set up for multi-player crewing since the AI piloting leaves a lot to be desired. Nevertheless, I use the map to give the Pilot his movement command and order him to fly to the pre-planned location...





Again, I can't stress enough how great the feeling of nap of earth flying is in ARMA2. It pretty much beats any other sim for level of detail and feeling of depth and speed simply because of the amount of trees, the geography, and the buildings and other structures that make you feel like you are skimming right over the earth...







As we approach the observation point, I go into the ORT view which has three zoom levels. You can use the ORT to direct your AI pilot to the position you want, but it is a fairly imprecise affair that has the potential to unmask you and present a target to the enemy. It would be nice if you could control the AI pilot with Gunship type commands such as "left or right 5 or 10 degrees" and command altitude increments of 10 or 20 feet to help with positioning. Maybe future ARMA versions will allow for that degree of AI control...









As we gain the proper position, I'm able to see past the hill toward the small villages below though the ORT. Quickly we begin spotting targets. It is now that I realize how little I know about the targeting and weapons system as I fall back to simple targeting using the TADS and the Hellfire missiles. Simply looking at the target and hitting the lock button gives a solid box (unless you don't have LOS) so I start picking off targets. I should be assessing the threats first, but frankly don't have the time to do it. It is worth noting that ARMA2 doesn't have a pause button, so all screens have to be taken on the fly..which is very difficult to do while flying and fighting!

Missiles away!











The convoy is in disarray as vehicles move in all directions. By all appearances, it looks like the trucks and soft skinned vehicles stay on the road while the tanks and other armor take to the fields and start setting up counter fire. As I lose sight of most of the convoy I make a critical mistake and direct the pilot over the hill, which exposes me while I can't get my sensors fully squared away. Had this been a Longbow Apache I could have used my FCR to paint a picture of the scene below, but this is a non-radar Apache I'm flying in this mission. As we move, I can see some trucks moving in a village below. I put my TADS on them and start firing bursts of cannon on the moving targets...



Then - tick, tick, tick..we are taking hits! I quickly switch to the map and give a retreat steer command to get us some cover. Tick, tick, tick, the engine catches on fire! Crap! I'm not in the pilot's seat, so I can only assume he is going through the fire extinguisher procedure...



I place the cursor over our FOB and direct the pilot to fly directly to our base as the flames and smoke trail us. I'm still unsure of whether the fire is supposed to go out if the fire extinguisher procedure works or not...



Just shy of the base the pilot radios that we have lost our fuel and we are going in! My finger hovers over the button to get me out of the cockpit as we come crashing through the canopy. Our tail rips off and we come to rest tilted over, but alive!



I get out of the cockpit. In the far distance I can hear some vehicles...what to do, what to do?



I mark the location of the crash site on my map. When not in the helicopter there is no moving cursor, so it is all GPS readings and matching that up to the map - a nice little old school feature. We are only a short distance from the FOB so, with the beauty of a sandbox sim, I devise a plan to recover my helo!



Up the hill we go toward the FOB...



Excuse me while I borrow this supply truck...



I check out the map and find some roads that will lead toward the crash site. I elect to just use the roads, then once I'm on the same contour line as the crash site, I'll head off through the thick forest...







About this time, my 4-year old son comes into the room. I don't play shooting and killing games when he is around (he's growing up fast enough as it is), but this is now a SAR mission, so I invite him onto my lap and we start poking around the woods looking for the crash site. When he sees it - he points and yells in triumph!



I pull the vehicle up close to the wrecked helo, climb out, and get in the cockpit of the Apache. From there I'm able to order the rearming, refueling, and repair work...





I climb back out and look overhead. Hmm..this could be dicey...



I'm commenting on the problem of the trees when my son asks me "Well, do you have a cell phone to call for help?" I laugh at that. Then, I tell him that even though we are repaired, we might have a hard time taking off through the trees. I offhandedly mention that a couple satchel charges might knock down the trees so him (not knowing what a satchel charge is) suggests I use a chainsaw. No buddy, I don't have one of those either (now is when I need some Day Z friends apparently..haha..) I climb in, start up the engines and try to ease up through the canopy...



Crash..boom..crash..the helo blades tear into the trees and I'm back on the ground again, banged up once more. I use the truck to repair once more, but I notice I did manage to back up a bit and now I have a pretty good hole in the canopy above - this might just work this time! This time I take all the weapons off hoping that at a lighter weight I can just rocket up above the treeline...





I start-up the engines once again, wait for the rotor RPM to stabilize, the pour the torque on..



I ascend rapidly (maybe too rapidly) and boom! I guess I hit the trees with too much velocity because I drop straight down and the mission is ended.



Damn! That was exciting! I think it was in the top 10 of memorable missions in my simming career because it went from a straight up strike mission to so much more. That is the beauty of the combo of flying and ARMA2 third-person world. I can see all kinds of possibilities for missions taking advantage of this type of scenario.

Now I just need to find a human CP/G..! <g>

BeachAV8R

i have nothing - no sim experience, no stick no nothing except a keyboard and mouse but this looks awesome

quick question - do you not trust the weapons officer AI?

I think you can actually fly this with the mouse - I know you can fly other ARMA helicopters with a mouse (lots of people do it and get quite good at it)..


Actually, the AI gunner is probably way, way better than me. I just haven't quite come to grips with the ARMA command structure yet. It is going to take some time to get proficient at both using the weapons and sensors myself, and ordering my CP/G to work for me.

BeachAV8R

Beach, great job with this AAR so far!

do you have a link to the mod?

Yep - here is the thread with the mod description and the link: HERE!

Good luck!

BeachAV8R

Great read.

I haven't got armaA2 but I had a look at the link.
I have the greatest respect for a bunch of guys that will spend a couple of years making such a mod.
Modders are the unsung hero's of the milsim community

Great AAR Beach! I was so hoping this mod works with Arma III......while I own Arma II and many of the add ons, I did not bring them with me to Korea.

Beach, do you consider the Flight model and button pushing in the cockpit to be on par with the later Microprose Gunship simulations? Not that they were fantastically in depth, but enough to make you feel like part of a flight team. Make sense?

Well, yes and no. I feel that the flight model is better than the old Microprose Gunship for sure. To add to that - the sensation of flight can't really be beaten even by sims like FSX or DCS, simply because the level of detail and the excellent tree, grass, and shrub detail is so fantastic in ARMA2. I'll grab some screen video today if I can and post it up. Now, where the ARMA2 Apache lacks is that it is really hard to direct the AI from the gunner seat..which results in getting killed a lot of the time. It really is probably best suited to two-player multi-play because of the need to communicate and move and target quickly.

Regarding the button pushing - there is a lot modeled here, and it is all done quite well within the framework of ARMA2. The ARMA type user interface can be a bit frustrating (the scroll wheel rolling down through certain selections), but I had the same problem initially with Take On Helicopters and learned to adjust my mentality to it.

All of that said - it sure would be damn nice if ED would shelve all these World War 2 projects and get to work on an Apache for DCS - I'd never look back! (I love ED..but damn I want the F/A-18C and an Apache and/or Hind)..

Stay tuned, I'll try to put up some video this weekend...

BeachAV8R

Dyslecxi has a video, which I like, of Kilroy and himself playing as a pilot/gunner in arma 2. Can't say their TTP's are accurate but it looked like a fun mission.

Not ED, but VEAO is already on pre start phase for a Boeing/Augusta Ah-64D Apache. Check this:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=127100

This is some video that I shot last night while flying some of the single mission "Ground Attack" with the Nodunit & Franze AH-64D Apache mod for ARMA2.

You can see the training AARs: HERE!

This mission is just a single mission that has you going out to destroy a convoy. The video isn't exhaustive (or all that well flown) but shows the engine start-up, flying from the cockpit and flying from the CP/G view. I didn't do a lot of button pushing in the cockpit because mostly I was just trying to show the immersive feeling of flight that ARMA2 does when you are talking about low and slow stuff (helicopters!). It is very good at that. Flight model is OK. When you are flying at the CP/G, you will see you don't have a lot of control over where he flies and how he gets there. You really have to micromanage him when you get close to the action. You have to either use the view and direction commands to point and send him where you want to go (including lining up a heading for an attack or hover) and altitude has a tendency to balloon up if he is moving really fast. Eventually he will drop down into a hover, but it can leave you exposed. It would be nice to have some sort of basic (left right, up down) control over the AI gunner, but you just have to be careful and realize this is probably best flown with a human pilot (I haven't tried that).

I was flying a non-radar Apache in this mission. In other missions you will have a Longbow - so you have a radar and FCR and all that good stuff. I didn't mess with ASE settings or anything else..just pretty much designating with the TADS. Of interest is you'll occasionally see me switch targets while the Hellfire is in flight and it is pretty cool to see multiple missiles come down from different directions on the target. You'll also notice what appears to be a disconnect between the gun and the rounds "splashing", but if you take a look at the engagement range - that is the reason for the long delay between firing and rounds on target - 2.0 on the IHADDS, I'm not sure if that means 2000 meters or 2.0 miles. Either way, it explains the lag between firing and rounds hitting and the very wide dispersal. Still pretty damaging to soft skin targets though..

Sorry I didn't turn the music down in game..I actually don't even know if I heard it in the heat of the moment.

You'll also see me crash a couple of times when the enemy got off return fire at me. Learning the Apache and learning how to use it within the constraints of ARMA2 is pretty challenging, but rewarding too.

Best watched in 1080 obviously:



BeachAV8R

Great stuff Beach, as always. I think using the non-FCR Longbow is perhaps more rewarding than with an all Seeing RADAR attached to your bird. I was going to comment about your chain gun not being boresighted, but you've already addressed it in the above statement. Having spent much time in and around VBS2 and VBS3, made by Bohemia Interactive as well and really the same game engine, I am certain they are referring to meters versus miles. Everything on their map is scaled to meters, since we're the only knucklehead country not using metric measurements, outside the military. Finally, I have to say the explosions were very spot on with real life. I thought I was watching a real ITADDS video from an actual Apache in theater. Now, admittedly, no explosion is ever the same, it was just the way it hit, brewed up and popped that was so very reminiscent of the explosions I saw. As always, thanks for sharing and taking time to always reply to any questions posted. Watching and reading your AAR's may just convince me to buy Arrowhead again on Steam, just to play this great evolving add on.

Yeah, I think the 2.0 is KM or 2000 meters. It would stand to reason. A more experienced player would probably use the Hellfires from afar, then move closer in and clean up with the gun at less than 1000 meters, but I was pretty gun shy about getting blasted out of the sky. Particularly when you are flying as the CP/G since ordering a retreat takes some time. If you are flying as the pilot, you can just dump the collective and settle behind some cover..but trying to manage the AI pilot is pretty frustrating.

The explosions credit I have to give to Blastcore 1.2 Mod. The explosions, fire, and smoke effects they add are fantastic:

LINK!



Thanks for the kind words. It makes the effort to share this stuff worthwhile. Hope you get some stick time over there in Korea.. I have fond memories of living there.

BeachAV8R

I have never owned Arma but after watching your videos I am serious considering getting it
I have long wished for a Apache sim there's one on the horizon but this would certainly
Give me some training in masking and so on.
Could you explain some of the limitations you stated are present in Arma.
Many thanks for showing me this amazing mod.

Well, I think the biggest limitation in ARMA can be the combination of the view system and the scrolling action menu. You have to remember - ARMA was originally designed (primarily) as a land warfare sim. The helos and aircraft are sort of added in there on top of that, so they have to shoehorn their modeling into the existing framework. Now, what Nodunit and Franze have done is simply amazing getting all the more complex Apache stuff working - but there are still very real and noticeable differences between a dedicated Apache sim and what we have with this mod. Most notably is that PNVS is really not that useful in the sim unless you are at really close range. It will pick up heat signatures, but without a great ability to zoom it isn't that useful in my opinion. The other problem is that you can't get those zoomed in TADS/IHADDS views from the pilot seat - you have to be in the CP/G seat and as far as I can tell, there is no switching between the two mid-mission unless you physically land, order the gunner out, take his place, then order him in as pilot.

Regarding the flight modeling - I think they've done a good job with it..but it probably lacks a lot of the more advanced helo physics that something like DCS has. But like I've said - it is almost all made up for in the very low action detail that you get in ARMA worlds. Seeing the treetops skim by is pretty cool..and knowing they are collidable and that the enemy can't shoot you through it (unlike DCS), is quite compelling. And then there is the whole 3rd person ability to hop out of your helo and fight, or flee, or grab another vehicle.

Other limitations that I think are there but haven't explored yet - is that I don't know if you can get full standoff range from the Hellfire missiles. I'm not sure what the draw distance and detection ranges are in ARMA2 - but I'm not sure that you could engage something from like 8KM out or whatever the max range of the Hellfire is.

Anyway - those are a few of the "buts" about the mod. But I've found the gameplay to be quite compelling, although occasionally frustrating. It feels a bit like a chessmatch with the enemy forces as opposed to a run and gun type deal. Which is fun..but can be brutal.

I'll be starting the full campaign this week - so I'll have more on that soon. Hope that shed a little more light on my impressions thus far.

Regards,
BeachAV8R

Beach, I found out at some point I actually had purchased this through Steam but since installing ARMA3, deleted and de-selected from my favorites....yay! Anyway, I re-installed it, Operation Arrowhead and got an error message about needing a CA_Water file or something along that line. I then read the BI Studio forums and it pertained to a file present in Czech Army DLC that must be installed too. However, this thread was discussing only that particular error message. So, installed Base game and OA and got no error messages and all the DLC, even if some are of the lite configuration. I then installed the AH64 mod in the Addon folder in Steam, as well as placing the Key file in the Key folder. When I fire up the game. I cannot locate the missions or campaign. I see the EW campaign, but that was in the original game or OA addon.

Any chance you can tell me how you installed your file? I read the Read Me file, it only spoke about the pbo files going into the Addon folder, which it did. Thoughts from you or anyone else that's installed this excellent mod?

I'm no expert on ARMA strykerpsg, but here's how I got it to work:

- Copy the entire Apache mod archive contents (key file and all) to a new set of '@FZA/Addons' directories under the ARMAII:OA steam directory. (i.e. Z:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Arma 2 Operation Arrowhead)

- Started up OA, go to 'Extensions' and activate the new FZA Apache addon. I then got the 'CA_Water' file warning when restarting OA.

- Installed plain ARMA II from Steam, but when done then copy the entire 'AddOns' directory from that to the base directory for ARMAII:OA. After you copy that directory across (it's about 8GB) then you don't need plain ARMAII installed anymore. More details in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkD5fxsdvMY

- Play.

Hope that helps and good luck!

Great stuff, Beach. I need to find time to try this out.

BTW, my favorite terrain for helicopters and armor:
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=16584

Sorry, my sever is screwed up with the images...hope to have it fixed shortly..