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Just look at what Janes's says about SA-2/3/4/5...

What does it say?

I see
Guidance is by course correction command signals from the associated `Square Pair' radar with the missile's own active radar terminal homing seeker being activated near to the projected intercept point.

Link

This is from Jane's of 1994...

By the way, that's what Jane's said about an S-125:
"The first recorded combat use of the S-125 was in 1970 when PVO-Strany units, including several `Goa' missile regiments, were deployed to Egypt with twin launchers to form a joint Egyptian-Soviet air defence network to cover the Suez Canal Zone during the last phase of the 1968 to 1970 Egyptian-Israeli War of Attrition.
Although a large number of men and much equipment was lost to Israeli air attacks, the PVO-Strany units shot down a total of five McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantoms with the S-125 and were instrumental in forcing on the Israelis the 7 August 1970 UN ceasefire.
The next combat use came in late 1972 when the North Vietnamese used small numbers of S-125s against American aircraft during the Linebacker raids. Their first and only recorded kill was also against an F-4 Phantom of the US Marine Corps."

Is this true? Did they actually downed five Phantoms over Egypt and one - in Vietnam?

At that point decoys may not have been very effective. HARM is constantly upgraded - but maybe you are right, who knows ...

And yes you are correct - the main dangers to USAF and IAF have been SAMs. But that doesn't stop them from being speed bumps for those air-forces. I think it says more about the opposing air forces than the SAMs. Any time that the airborne opposition was not competitive, air power did a lot of damage despite SAMs being around - and this is exactly what I mean by 'speed bumps'. I don't mean you can ignore them.

Also to consider the other side of the coin...
...no (fighter jock) in any F-16/15 was ever able to engage any incoming SCUD missile.

Maybe not this day, but an F-15 fighter jock HAS shot a sattelite out of orbit

There was some idea proposed by Ratheon to arm F-15's with PAC-3's, but it was a silly idea.

I don't think you could reasonably expect a fighter to counter SRBMs or MRBMs anyway, for sure.

Big problem is that hostile nations towards the west are more and more investing into SRBM technology, instead of MiG-29's.
(After the expert Serbian MiG-29 drivers suffered severe punishing, while Serbian SAM crews mostly survived during OAF.)

In my opinion, West needs to invest more into ATBM-SAM technology, than into TOP GUN...

And they do! Patriot PAC3, Standard SM3, THAAD, GBI, Israeli Arrow - all are dedicated anti-BM weapons! Even Franco-Italian PAAMS/SAMP-T has a substantial anti-TBM capability: http://www.eurosam.com/ground.html I wouldn't say that they do not invest enough, in fact I'd say quite the opposite!

^^^^

Yep, exactly. Also, THAAD aside they have minuteman missiles converted into ABM, IIRC.

They survived because they hid for the most part. They were waiting to inflict more damage if there was a ground invasion, and thus still be functional to support their soldiers - a smart move. But they were still just a speed bump. They only shot down a couple of planes in the end and the country capitulated due to airpower alone.



What Loneworlf said, but I don't think anyone has adequate SAMs to deal with a serious BM attack.

Best quote about this situation, I've ever read, is from a book of a guy called Gen. Wesley K. Clark.


He said...

"Toughest defense of bombing any Serbian target of my choice, was in fact the employees of the French Embassy...
... not the Serbian IADS."

Can you put that in context please?

That's called GBI

I'd also say that "top gun" is a way to deal with those who fires those missiles, not with missiles themselves...

Just observing the difficulties of SAM crews...

The SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F) was designed against medium altitude bombers (like Linebacker-II B-52 kills), and high altitude spy planes (several U-2 kills)...
... but even in Vietnam it was mostly used against medium altitude nimble fighters (F-4, F-105), and Weasels.
In Egypt, it had to fight against low altitude/high speed fighters, like the A-4, and Mirage-III.
Non of these targets were designed this system against.

The S-125M Neva (SA-3B) was designed against low altitude/high speed fighters (like F-4, F-105)...
... but in Serbia it was mostly used against medium altitude Stealth Bombers (F-117A, B-2A), and Weasels (F-16CJ).
Non of these targets were designed this system against.

The S-200VE Vega (SA-5B) was designed against Standoff Jammers (EA-6B, EF-111B), AWACS and high altitude/high speed spy planes (SR-71)...
... but in Libya it was mostly used against medium altitude Weasels (A-7), or nimble fighters (F-14).
Non of these targets were designed this system against.

...

And as I analyze the possibility of introducing the Patriot into the SAMsim, what I find...
The Patriot PAC-2 was designed to easily kill all of the target types described above...
... but in Iraq it was mostly used against tactical ballistic missiles, the system was not designed against.

Patriot is a newer system and so it is more versatile, but it is a HIRAD system. According to RL operators, there is still a gap without the HAWK (the Stinger systems take care of SHORAD).

I consider myself as an educated one in Russian Air Defense abbreviations, but my knowledge has some holes in the Wester ones...
... could you please describe what "HIRAD system" means?

High altitude radar air defense.

There's also MERAD (Medium Altitude), LORAD (Low altitude) and SHORAD (short range, and LORAD is usually part of SHORAD).

These are generic terms used to describe an air defense system - for for example a BUK would be MERAD, and Tor would be SHORAD.

Russian designation is based on quite a different system...

Long Range SAM systems are the...
... S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B), S-300PMU1 Volhov-M6M (SA-20A), S-300PMU2 Favorit (SA-20B) and the S-400 Triumph (SA-21)

Medium Range SAM systems are the...
... S-25 Berkut (SA-1), SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F), S-75M Volhov (SA-2E), 2K11 KRUG (SA-4B), S-300PT Biryusa (SA-10A), and the S-300PS/PMU Volhov-M6 (SA-10B).

Short Range SAM systems are the...
... S-125M Neva (SA-3B), 2K12 KUB (SA-6), ...