Not possible since it was not CA's goal. But it will function adequately to provide you with plenty of fun to begin with. Maybe Hpasp will be interested in creating accurate SAMs for DCS and maybe DCS will be interested in helping. Who knows
DCS: Hpasp's IADS
Originally Posted By: Silver_Dragon
Rudimentary and no properly simulated.... but open to make 3rd Party addons..... �DCS: 3rd Party SamSimulator?
Yes...and it might be useful to add some accurate first-hand information, instead of age-old western intelligence, from technical manuals like those we've seen around here and the simulator's documentations to various other simulators out there.
Plenty of them are still modeling SA-75M(SA-2F) as an advanced version of S-75M3(SA-2E), with 2K11(SA-4) and S-200(SA-5) as systems combining command line-of-sight with terminal active radar homing a la AIM-54 Phoenix.
This doesn't have much to do with intel. ED does aircraft simulations, basically.
Originally Posted By: JWNoctis
Yes...and it might be useful to add some accurate first-hand information, instead of age-old western intelligence, from technical manuals like those we've seen around here and the simulator's documentations to various other simulators out there.
Plenty of them are still modeling SA-75M(SA-2F) as an advanced version of S-75M3(SA-2E), with 2K11(SA-4) and S-200(SA-5) as systems combining command line-of-sight with terminal active radar homing a la AIM-54 Phoenix.
I know, but I was talking about things like, say, H3ANW with its various databases, the upcoming Command, and some Falcon 4.0 mods, to name a few.
And I wonder...Does those technical manuals constitute "reliable, published sources" on Wikipedia? Some of those articles about these systems could really use a revamp--Most of those are based on released blue intel.
Anyway, it would always be nice to have some human-piloted targets adversaries!
Piston79, thanks! Although I frequently visit Dr. Kopp's lair, this graph somehow slipped from my attention! It is really interesting.
According to it, the old 30N6 has inferior range to even the SNR-125, and even the 92N2 (of S-400) will detect F-22 at distance not greater than some 30 NM. If this is so, then these systems will actually have a hard time dealing with modern Stealth aircraft and cruise missiles, such as JASSM...
Piston79, thanks! Although I frequently visit Dr. Kopp's lair, this graph somehow slipped from my attention! It is really interesting.
Click to reveal..
According to it, the old 30N6 has inferior range to even the SNR-125, and even the 92N2 (of S-400) will detect F-22 at distance not greater than some 30 NM. If this is so, then these systems will actually have a hard time dealing with modern Stealth aircraft and cruise missiles, such as JASSM...
These are mostly speculations, but we can narrow the S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B) capability against Stealth down, based on reliable information... ... as all we know...
...the S-300PS/PMU battery main Target Acquisition Radar is the ST-68U 36D6 19Zh6 (Tin Shield)...
It can detect a RCS=0,1 sqr-m target from 145km. (page 10)
So after doing the math... F-117A detection range would be ~50km (the only reliable info, calculated from the actual P-18 detection range beside Simanovci '99) B-2A detection range would be ~40km (just guessing the RCS) F-22A detection range would be ~30km (just guessing the RCS)
But...
... if we calculate the metric wavelenght 55Zh6 Nevo-U (Tall Rack) CVLO target acquisition radar also into the equation, than the picture is quite different... ... read more here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d2nrwg0wmmyudi9
Last edited by Hpasp; 06/01/1209:21 AM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
These are mostly speculations, but we can narrow the S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B) capability against Stealth down, based on reliable information... ... as all we know...
...the S-300PS/PMU battery main Target Acquisition Radar is the ST-68U 36D6 19Zh6 (Tin Shield)...
... and its capabilities are public. It can detect a RCS=0,1 sqr-m target from 145km. (page 10)
So after doing the math... F-117A detection range would be ~50km (the only reliable info, calculated from the actual P-18 detection range beside Simanovci '99) B-2A detection range would be ~40km (just guessing the RCS) F-22A detection range would be ~30km (just guessing the RCS)
But...
... if we calculate the metric wavelenght 55Zh6 Nevo-U (Tall Rack) CVLO target acquisition radar also into the equation, than the picture is quite different... ... read more here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d2nrwg0wmmyudi9
0,1 sq. m from 145 km?! Holy cow, that's a POWER!!! It looks like Dr Kopp made it all right in this graph: It looks like it has even longer range against low-RCS targets than mighty 64N6 Big Bird! I wonder, which RCS figure for F-117 did you used in your calculations? If I gonna take my favorite 0,0034 square meter figure for F-22, it would give me a range of between 30 and 40 nautical miles (!) according to this graph (there are two lines belonging to 36D6, perhaps different versions of it). By the way, what was a detection range for that F-117? In SAM Simulator, it's somewhere around 30 km, is it realistic?
This is 'straight up math', however - you can expect losses in RL radars. Hpasp's calculation is probably most accurate since it automatically accounts for the losses of one radar at least.
Also, once jammers enter into play (And they will, since each F-22/F-35 is practically its own stand-off jammer) you can see that range shrink into uselessness. It's important to keep in mind that as neat as things look on paper, in reality warfare uses a lot of assets that will not be friendly to your operations.
In addition, the required sensitivity is so great that it will be relatively easy to make a stealth aircraft 'dissapear' again. That's the real strength of a stealth aircraft.
In addition, the required sensitivity is so great that it will be relatively easy to make a stealth aircraft 'dissapear' again. That's the real strength of a stealth aircraft.
Physics is tough for both parties... ... if you reduce your plane radar cross section by half, you achieve only 16% reduction in detection range.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Back to the SAMSIM... ... as GrayGhost noted ... "It's important to keep in mind that as neat as things look on paper, in reality warfare uses a lot of assets that will not be friendly to your operations."
Pretty soon you will have the chance to face the lonely (No Weasels, No standoff Jamming) SR-71 above Tripoli, using Qaddafi's... S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) S-125M Neva (SA-3B) 5S99 Senezh-E IADS
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Pretty soon you will have the chance to face the lonely (No Weasels, No standoff Jamming) SR-71 above Tripoli, using Qaddafi's... S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) S-125M Neva (SA-3B) 5S99 Senezh-E IADS
This doesn't have much to do with intel. ED does aircraft simulations, basically.
With Combined Operations release, not only Aircraft and Helos, now vehicles, AAA and SAMs controled by humans enter on the equation, and the far, far future, ships. Only they need ideas and people with make interesting addons. A realistic SAM/AAA addons group can improve the new DCS battlegrond to high quality level. And a Sa-3 SAM system has integrated on the game.
Vehicles of Sa-3 System on DCS P-15 [Flat Face] search radar SNR-125M1 [Low Blow] Fire control radar SM-106 5P73 launcher (PU) 5V25 Sa-3 Missile
dude,,, please be aware! this is not game and peopole say oooo this is looks like a simulator! like almost version of lock on! at my eyes! this is good idea! but sam sim is very professional and very nearest to real workgroup than DCS! as i know sam sim based on real parameters and algorithm! at sam simulator we have more mission! of couse we called "senarios!" base on true story!
No attribute between sam sim and DCS in my sightt !
Originally Posted By: Silver_Dragon
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
This doesn't have much to do with intel. ED does aircraft simulations, basically.
With Combined Operations release, not only Aircraft and Helos, now vehicles, AAA and SAMs controled by humans enter on the equation, and the far, far future, ships. Only they need ideas and people with make interesting addons. A realistic SAM/AAA addons group can improve the new DCS battlegrond to high quality level. And a Sa-3 SAM system has integrated on the game.
Vehicles of Sa-3 System on DCS P-15 [Flat Face] search radar SNR-125M1 [Low Blow] Fire control radar SM-106 5P73 launcher (PU) 5V25 Sa-3 Missile
As you say, Sam Simulator is based on scenarios, and for now the problem of "DCS: World", not LOMAC because the latter is gone, is not having the theaters of operations in Libya, Egypt, Vietnam, Yugoslabia, and several apply to central europe and training areas, but that's something you may see in the future, whether near or far, as one of the new building on the possibility of such theaters, as well as objects controllable by humans and artificial intelligence, regardless of season simulated. Once some of those available, most likely years away, how long would it take to build realistic scenarios?, And human-controlled SAMs units would give much better atmosphere about it because the AI is predictable and stupid, while a human can coordinate tactics with SAMs adjacent units and other air units (such as air defense commander) through networks of command and coordinate strategies to disrupt the proposed scenarios situations at a level much higher. I think it's just a matter of time before this happens. Similarly, at the end of this year we have a fully implemented MiG-21bis weapons systems and realistic, it would be rare to see a SAM system well simulated in a few years. We'll see as this progresses, but right now DCS is opening a world of possibilities.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
