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to MR.HPaSPplease creat display option for nexr version.. for using easily!!! i have lap top ..but i cant work with this simulator because resulution maximum is 1280*800 if u creat a setting for display we can use from sam sim on ouwn lap top! so sam simulator is always with me at evry where please mr.hp....  do somthing  Please check the FAQ part of the SAMSIM website. https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
F.A.Q.
Technical problems
What is needed, to be able to start the simulator?
Computer must be able to display resolution 1280x1024, or above. Easiest thing to do is to buy a cheap LCD monitor.
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/23/12 04:20 PM.
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no no mr.hpasp.. i guess your thinked about me is wrong.. this is not my mean i have a best personal computer with 21.5 LCD wide and i can run this program with resolution 1980 and 1280*1024  my mean is creat graphical setting for lap top only... until evry sam user gone to example : travel !! he can work with sam simulator on lap top! this is my mean sir.. im not pooor guy sir  br milang
Last edited by milang; 05/23/12 06:32 PM.
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The answer to your question!
SAM simulator is not designed to run on a Laptop!
Permits are not equal to the Laptop The minimum 1280x1024
Permission for Laptop 1366x768 as usual I did not fit, simulator runs, but will edge Screen!
In the 1600x900 Resolution also will not be.
I tried to go, but the edge!
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In theory, the '80s multichannel - phased array based SAM systems are less vulnerable.
From what I've heard, 30N6 firing radar of S-300 has very noticeable backlobes (signal from emitter's lens is reflected from rear ends of phase shifters, which are large compared to their aperture for radar signal, and antenna frame), so I bet HARM would be able to home on it from behind. The same applies to S-300V. I guess, that is the reason why newer radars, such as that of Korean KM-SAM, have solid shroud around the radar's rear. This is simply a general disadvantage of the space feeded, phase shifter antenna systems. The same applies for the Patriot also. (Patriot with shroud)  The main idea is, that if you engage a 2 plane F-16CJ formation, and both Weasels are launching a HARM (half of their total war load for the mission), you can engage parallel the two plane and two incoming missiles, while you still have 2 firing channels free. Both Patriot and S-300 has capabilities to auto lock on incoming ARM's. 
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 07:08 AM.
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Same with NEVA (where FCO is a range tracker), but still he has a light on his panel....
How it is on the SIM (how AI behaves in the SIM?)... It does not simulate RS at all with the NEVA. Only FCO tracking, and AI tracking AS. A Player would not be able to range-track a target, and launch parallel.
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 07:09 AM.
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Hi, guys.. I was thinking about future of the SAM systems...(maybe miliang inspired me  )... Particulary about protection against ARM and other weapons and ATBM capabilities... We all are familiar (thanks to Mr. Hpasp, of course), about russian (USSR) "Dubler" and serbian decoys (based on variouse types of transmitters). I don't want to comment the efficiency of them (at least Col. Dani and his men are all alive), but I was thinking about other batterie (possible) deffensive fitures we didn't discused. Here some of my toughts: 1. Radar/IR/Terrain masking. Watching some videos of night firing on Ashuluk, I've noticed that SAM position was very distinguished in the IR sector even observed true russian IR instruments. I had info about wide variety of IR reducing features (mainly covers from variouse materials), but didn't met info of their applications on SAM systems. Of course the heat of the launch cannot be hidden, but all other stuff (trailers and vans) must be consiled as much as it possible. Terrain masking is used as default. RPN:  
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 07:58 AM.
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The current doctrine is to stand up and fight against one wave of attackers from an unprepared (random) site, than quickly change position and wait for the next wave.
(Thus the deploying and removing of any cover/masking should happen within 5 minutes.)
During the fight, a modern SAM would illuminate all the time, trying to engage Weasels and incoming HARMs parallel. Well, this is possible only for the top armies, which possesed newest SAM systems in huge quontities... Linebacker II is an example of a stand-up fight (which I believe PVO losts due to not enough batteries in my opinion). So, countries with limited military budgets couldn't afort to possesed most advanced SAM systems, so they shold work with what they have. I think, that multi channel, phase shifted fire control radars were rare only during the cold war. Now days, they are common equipment.
List of countries Patriot was exported:NATO Operators Germany Greece Netherlands Poland Spain United States
Other Operators Bahrain Egypt Israel Japan Republic of Korea (South Korea) Kuwait Saudi Arabia Republic of China (Taiwan) List of countries S-300P was exported: Algeria Armenia Azerbaijan Belarus Bulgaria People's Republic of China Cyprus Kazakhstan Slovakia � Inherited from Czechoslovakia. Russia Ukraine United States Vietnam Former operators Czechoslovakia � Passed on to Slovakia in 1993. East Germany Soviet Union I would not consider all of these as TOP ARMIES...
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 07:53 AM.
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Nice movie, thanks! 
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 08:07 AM.
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Alas.... Patriot , I wish that system installed in Hungary for best protect 
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I would not consider all of these as TOP ARMIES... Please, add the number of batteries possesed by those countries, and if you dig deep, what is the density of the coverage over the important objects. Even a modern SAM could be overwhelmed if it is not in a neccesary quontities...
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Last edited by milang; 06/01/12 02:54 PM.
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Damn, they are GOOD, they evaded 14 missiles :-( Missile 4 almost hit the target.... They are really aware of the missile's flight envelope. 18:40 24th of March, 1986.
Operation Prairie Fire
S-200VE Vega-E
00:04:33, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 66km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 2�
Target angular speed: 202m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 3km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 39,8dB
00:04:39, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 65km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 2�
Target angular speed: 202m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 3km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 39,9dB
00:04:44, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 64km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 2�
Target angular speed: 202m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 3km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 40dB
00:04:49, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 63km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 2�
Target angular speed: 203m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 3km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 40,2dB
00:06:04, Missile launched from launcher-5
Target distance: 71km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 1�
Target angular speed: -198m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 39,1dB
00:06:40, Missile launched from launcher-6
Target distance: 78km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -198m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 38,3dB
00:07:10, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 84km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -198m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 37,5dB
00:07:20, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 86km
Target azimuth: 49�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -198m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 37,3dB
00:07:37, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 90km
Target azimuth: 50�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -198m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 36,9dB
00:07:48, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 92km
Target azimuth: 50�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -198m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 36,6dB
00:08:25, Missile launched from launcher-5
Target distance: 99km
Target azimuth: 50�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -199m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 35,7dB
00:08:59, Missile launched from launcher-6
Target distance: 106km
Target azimuth: 50�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -199m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 34,9dB
00:09:22, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 110km
Target azimuth: 50�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -199m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 34,3dB
00:09:34, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 113km
Target azimuth: 50�
Target elevation: 0�
Target angular speed: -199m/s (-0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 1,5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 34dB
Total, SNR On Air Time: 7min 20sec
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I would not consider all of these as TOP ARMIES... Please, add the number of batteries possesed by those countries, and if you dig deep, what is the density of the coverage over the important objects. Even a modern SAM could be overwhelmed if it is not in a neccesary quontities... Of course, any defense can be overwhelmed by sheer number of attackers. Sometimes, there are surprisingly few of them. Usual Operation Allied Force package against Belgrade consisted... 2 pairs of F-15C CAP armed with; 2 AIM-9M Sidewinder's, 2 AIM-7MH Sparrow's, 4 AIM-120 AMRAAM's 2 pairs of F-16CJ Weasel armed with; 2 AIM-9M Sidewinder's, 2 AIM-120 AMRAAM's, 2 AGM-88 HARM's 1 pair of EA-6B Jammer 10 pieces of F-117A armed with; 2 LGB's 2 pieces of B-2A armed with; JDAM's ... against 8 S-125M Neva (SA-3B) SAM, defending the Serbian capital. (I plan to introduce several situations around Belgrade in the far future...)
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 12:58 PM.
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excuse me mr.hp... about serbian war with nato .. over and around belgrad city ... serbian army did used or didnt used any amrican sam???
It might be serbian army using amrican sam system like hawk to engage with nato army???
for deffense belgrAD and over the serb country ... serbian army only use ussr sam defense?
Last edited by milang; 05/24/12 02:23 PM.
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The main idea is, that if you engage a 2 plane F-16CJ formation, and both Weasels are launching a HARM (half of their total war load for the mission), you can engage parallel the two plane and two incoming missiles, while you still have 2 firing channels free. Both Patriot and S-300 has capabilities to auto lock on incoming ARM's. The problem is that both Patriot and S-300 can simultaneously engage targets only in relatively narrow sector, not wider than 90 degrees. If the enemy will launch coordinated air attack with demonstration group that will attack from the front, launching ARM's and decoys, and strike group, that will approach the SAM site from behind, at low altitude, and fire their HARM's at radar's backlobes (similar to Israeli tactics modeled in several missions in SAM Sim, minus ARM's, of course), the lone SAM will have no chance. Putting several SAMs at one location, so that they will be able to cover each other's back is also not the best idea, considering their cost - SAM's have to cover some objects, not themselves. This is, I think, a major problem in today's conditions. The Russian "Morfei" SAM, that I mentioned before, is one of possible solutions to this problem, intended to cover the "big brothers" - S-400, S-500 - from such strikes, with its 360 degree firing capability. P. S.: It is intersting if that fabric shroud on your picture is actually made of radar-absorbing material, or it is here just to protect against rain and snow. If the former is true, it looks like Americans have recognized a problem here too...
Last edited by Lonewolf357; 05/24/12 03:20 PM.
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I'm not sure if there is (still) an error, but when looking at the elevation profile of SA2 missile engaging the U2 (in an earlier post), the missile speed increases monotonically from ground to max altitude, before dropping off to a lower value which is steady until impact...
This seems an unlikely velocity profile, and there is a considerable difference between the reported 'speed' and the displayed scale.
Other tracks produce similar profiles and discrepancies in scale/value. I wonder if the speed/scale is partially where the scale only reports ground speed, but the flight path also allows for changes in altitude? However, this isn't 'all' the problem as the SU9 also has 1320km/h peak reported on an 1187km/h scale. (Allowing for spherical coordinates (19871m altitude on 6378000m earth radius) only increases the 1187 'ground coordinate velocity') to 1190km/h, so there is/was an error of some kind somewhere).
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The main idea is, that if you engage a 2 plane F-16CJ formation, and both Weasels are launching a HARM (half of their total war load for the mission), you can engage parallel the two plane and two incoming missiles, while you still have 2 firing channels free. Both Patriot and S-300 has capabilities to auto lock on incoming ARM's. The problem is that both Patriot and S-300 can simultaneously engage targets only in relatively narrow sector, not wider than 90 degrees. If the enemy will launch coordinated air attack with demonstration group that will attack from the front, launching ARM's and decoys, and strike group, that will approach the SAM site from behind, at low altitude, and fire their HARM's at radar's backlobes (similar to Israeli tactics modeled in several missions in SAM Sim, minus ARM's, of course), the lone SAM will have no chance. Putting several SAMs at one location, so that they will be able to cover each other's back is also not the best idea, considering their cost - SAM's have to cover some objects, not themselves. This is, I think, a major problem in today's conditions. The Russian "Morfei" SAM, that I mentioned before, is one of possible solutions to this problem, intended to cover the "big brothers" - S-400, S-500 - from such strikes, with its 360 degree firing capability. P. S.: It is intersting if that fabric shroud on your picture is actually made of radar-absorbing material, or it is here just to protect against rain and snow. If the former is true, it looks like Americans have recognized a problem here too... Disagree.  S-300P should not illuminate its target, till it is in range. (55/75/90/150/250/400km whatever) When target is in range, the V-500 missile has Mach6(!!!) speed, while the HARM is achieving Mach2 only. From this point, it is only tactics, that would decide. Its not so easy to surprise an S-300PMU battery from the back, as it was demonstrated during the current Slovakian MACE-XIII exercise. http://www.macexiii.mil.sk/24943/ministe...-hosti.php?pg=1(Clam Shell Low Altitude Acquisition Radar far away...)  Turkish Phantom with Israeli EL/L-8222 Jamming pod   German Learjet-35 with EADS-Cassidian Jammers  Norvegian Dassault standoff jammer.  And the target... 
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 03:59 PM.
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If the enemy will launch coordinated air attack with demonstration group that will attack from the front, launching ARM's and decoys, and strike group, that will approach the SAM site from behind, at low altitude, and fire their HARM's at radar's backlobes (similar to Israeli tactics modeled in several missions in SAM Sim, minus ARM's, of course), the lone SAM will have no chance. Putting several SAMs at one location, so that they will be able to cover each other's back is also not the best idea, considering their cost - SAM's have to cover some objects, not themselves. This is, I think, a major problem in today's conditions. Thus in 1999, eve of the Operation Allied Force, the Yugoslavian Air Defense had:Three radio technical Brigade (20., 31., 58.), with 17 radio technical battalion. One S-125M Neva (SA-3B) brigade (250. around Belgrade) with 8 systems. One S-125M Neva (SA-3B) regiment (450. around Kraljevo) with 4 systems. Five 2K12M KUB (SA-6B) regiments altogether with 20 systems. 60. 2K12M KUB-M regiment around Podgorica 230. 2K12M KUB-M regiment around Nis 240. 2K12M KUB-M regiment around Novi Sad 310. 2K12M KUB-M regiment around Kraguljevac 311. 2K12M KUB-M regiment around Pristina This war was pretty close to turn much nastier, as the plans to field 3pcs S-300PMU1 (SA-20A Gargoyle) and 4pcs 9K330 TOR-M (SA-15 Gauntlet) were ready that time. Pretty different picture...  Usual Operation Allied Force package against Belgrade consisted...
2 pairs of F-15C CAP armed with; 2 AIM-9M Sidewinder's, 2 AIM-7MH Sparrow's, 4 AIM-120 AMRAAM's
2 pairs of F-16CJ Weasel armed with; 2 AIM-9M Sidewinder's, 2 AIM-120 AMRAAM's, 2 AGM-88 HARM's
1 pair of EA-6B Jammer
10 pieces of F-117A armed with; 2 LGB's
2 pieces of B-2A armed with; JDAM's
... against 8 S-125M Neva (SA-3B) SAM, defending the Serbian capital. Does B-2/-117 attacked PVO??? I am not pretty sure about that... Bet this 4 planes (weasels) were attacking only one or maximum two batteries. In fact serbs had total of 32 target chanels (12 "Neva" and 20 "Kub", only 8 of them were around Belgrade), so max 16 planes (attacking from 2 different directions), where enough to make an attack against Belgrade PVO (I am not counting the artilery).
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Does B-2/-117 attacked PVO??? I am not pretty sure about that...
Bet this 4 planes (weasels) were attacking only one or maximum two batteries. In fact serbs had total of 32 target chanels (12 "Neva" and 20 "Kub", only 8 of them were around Belgrade), so max 16 planes (attacking from 2 different directions), where enough to make an attack against Belgrade PVO (I am not counting the artilery). Yes during the first night, they attacked most of the known (than already empty) fixed SAM locations, and Tomahawk's were used to knock off the sole P-14 Tall King at Kacarevo.  Here is the fixed site Yakovo, of the 3.rd PVO (Zoltan Dani's unit) after the first night. The battery left the site few days before the war broke out, leaving few guards at the site only. Those guards were pretty  after the bombing. 
In fact serbs had total of 32 target chanels (12 "Neva" and 20 "Kub", only 8 of them were around Belgrade), so max 16 planes (attacking from 2 different directions), where enough to make an attack against Belgrade PVO (I am not counting the artilery).
In fact, those firing channels were defending different targets, so the Capital-Belgrade (most important target) was defended only by 8 Neva. As the Serbians expected a long war to survive, they created a duty rota so never more than 2~4 battery were actually online. The other units were relocating meantime to their next firing position.
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/24/12 07:43 PM.
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OK, I see your point, Hpasp, this makes sense. However with HARM's simultaneously approaching from different directions, SAM crew will still have very hard time dealing with them. By the way, is there any information at which distance can S-300 track the Stealth aircraft, such as F-117? If the S-125 can do so at about 17 km, how S-300 would do?
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HOA's
by Terl9999 - 09/18/26 04:12 AM
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Football
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Flags
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