homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation Air Combat - General Modern Era What would you like to see in MiG Alley?

Folks,

I flew another instant action mission. we were attacking the airfield at Sinuju. No one had the advantage and four flights of MiGs met us head on. During the mele that followed I tried to padlock and get on the tail of one of those most unsociable fellows driving something with red stars on it. At the same time I was thinking about what Bastido had implied were serious faults in the FM. I just couldn't agree. As long as I managed my energy level and used the trim and flaps properly I had no trouble at all even with complex AI and the red pilot set to ace. Imean there was plenty of trouble with the miGs but not much with my F86 F.

I think Rowan and the BDG got it mostly right as far as I can see and I've been flying a PC since way back in the 80's when that first flight sim followed me home. It was titled "Jet". This was before MS came out with their first FS. All systems are different and skills are different and expectations differ. No one can be all right or all wrong in these matters. I'm glad that Bastido gave the game to someone else rather than trashing it. Kudos to him I say.

Roger,

Thanks for all the files BTW, some nice mods there and the Wingman commands document is very helpful.

The water in the default terrain textures is dark navy for me as well. It looks a lot better in the spring terrain. The texture you see when you fly just above the surface is what is difference between "All" and "Tri-linear" for me, it is only there on the "All" setting. It isn't as noticeable in the default terrain, but in the spring one it makes the water look like steel. Will try to post a screenie when I get home.

/C

Here is a shot when I use the Spring Terrain and have the Filter setting to All. If I have it on Tri-Linear it looks normal. Default terrain looks fine with All setting, and I get som kind of micro texture when flying low (which is probably what the purpose is but it doesn't work very well with add on terrains):

Folks,

Clark:

Mine is much darker no matter what the settings and with the Gamma on max. Here is a comparison of the two settings. I'm going to reinstall the spring terrain I think and try that again. Yours looks better. Unfortunately reduced in size here you can't see any detail at all. There isn't much but in one instance using the "ALL" setting I had the same squiggly texture you have but a good deal darker.

Folks,

Clark,

Here is a shot as close as I can get one and you may be able to make out the same pattern. This is set to "ALL". Set to Trilinear I could not see any texture.

Here is what the Spring terrain water looks like from a bit up, a big improvement IMO. And with the Tri setting I don't get the ugly textures:

Folks,

Clark:

OK. I am not completely certain what combination of changes I made the first time but your suggested setup has my screen right where you are with the water textures and that is a huge improvement. What do you have your gamma set on? I tried setting mine back to high but that was unpleasantly dark. Alles Gut now my friend. Thanks for the help.

Dell Dimension 4400
Win XP Home Svc Pak 3
P4 1.60 MHz
1 GB RAM
GForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8X
W/128 MB Vid RAM
Direct X Ver. 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)

Folks:

Clark:

Much better with the new terrain and trilinear.

You're welcome Roger.

My Gamma is set at Medium.

Just had an unlucky run in with a MiG :

Folks,

Clark:

The next time your wingman shouts duck I wouldn't waste time looking around for one; I'd just do it. With that much damage I bet that you probably felt quite a draft.

Looks like they're just trying to get even. I got up real close and personal the other night and I shot the complete tail Section right off a MiG. I've never seen that happen before. I mean the tail falling off. I have occasionally hit a few MiGs in the past... just a few.

Folks,

IT WAS FUN RIGHT UP UNTIL I AUGURED IN

The MiGs were especially aggressive and my wingman and I were hard pressed to keep them off our backs much less shoot one down. Every time I'd get one padlocked I'd maybe get one good squirt at 'em and then I'd get that funny feeling on the back of my neck just before my wingman shouted for me to break. No one had an advantage at the beginning and for a change we were not completely outnumbered so I had expected better luck.

When I hit "C" and asked if my six was clear all I heard was static. I pressed Ctrl-F1 just in time. I had just managed to get a MiG smoking before that key press padlocked a new MiG on my tail and glowing tennis balls were being lobbed past my ride. This reminded me I had an appointment elsewhere.

The use of that Ctrl-F1 combination is vital IMHO especially when your heroic but dispensable wingman gets so inconveniently lost or shot down. I split S'ed and got on the audacious MiG's tail and promptly shot him down. Before he had hit the ground another of his buddies caught my undivided by mussing the paint job on my Sabre's tail. Having never been properly introduced I was offended and pulled around and eventually got on his tail and returned the greeting.

That guy pulled every maneuver in the Korean Pilot's "How To Give Yankee Sky Pirates The Slip" book. At one point I was looking straight up at him and he was inverted looking down at me. Any closer and I could have read the time on his Mickey Mouse watch.

We rolled around each other. I came out of my roll on his six close enough to read his N. Korean driver's license and apparently he took offense to that and popped his speed break. I fought hard not to over shoot but it was too late and although he was in a fatal spin he took a parting shot at me as I zoomed by trying hard to get as low as I could so he couldn't see me. By now neither of us had much wiggle room and he was already headed for a dirt sandwich. I was angry at myself for over shooting and at him for nearly nailing my butt to his hanger wall. I pulled too hard to go around and watch him plow in and I stalled out way too low to recover.

That spin ended up in the weeds with me trying hard to remember the keyboard cheat that gives you an extra 1000 feet so you can mentally determine your list of beneficiaries and make the final touches on your last will and testament. Cheat...me cheat? Honesty forces me to admit that it was only my failing memory and that first good bounce that kept me from cheating my friends and I am not particularly ashamed to admit it...

Funny thing, just after that incident I did a quick one-on-one with a MiG and when I was about to down him, and he was smoking, I told myself "it's strange that they always just explode and that you can't shoot pieces of them". And then with my next shot I blew his tail right off just as you described .

/C

Folks,

Clark:

I saw a MiG shed a wing last night. There was an explosion near the wing root and he rolled over and went straight in from a couple hundred feet I'd guess. Even close up I have not seen small pieces flying off anything as I have in other sims.

I have noticed with some confusion and consternation that if I sneak up on an unsuspecting MiG and wait until he almost fills my forward view a short burst and he disappears. Then I find the padlock is suddenly looking directly aft. There is never any sign of the enemy. This may be a bug or it may be due some idiosyncrasy of my system or setup. There is no explosion as far as I can tell. Have you seen that too?

JRT

I remember seeing disappearing MIGS once or twice in the sim. This copied from a previous forum from another member: � Sometimes when firing on a MiG, they simply disappear (or warp to several miles away). I find this happens especially if attacking MiGs while they are still taking off. � Because it occurs infrequently for me I never bothered to figure out what was causing it.

Vox:

The MiGs I've seen right up their tail pipes must have been flown by Kirk, Spock or Scotty because they apparently transported elsewhere at warp speed never to be seen by me again. They were neither taking off nor were they landing. They were RTB flying straight and only now and then dropping down a few hundred feet before climbing again.

I closed in just as I sometimes can on an unwary BF 109 in BoB2. As soon as I heard my shells ricochet on the MiG's skin... BAM. He was just gone and my padlock was looking back into blank space. Now, (I thought so wisely) all I have to do is release the padlock when I get a point blank range shot. So next time I had the chance I tried that. BAM! No MiG... no padlock... no explosion... only empty space in front of me. This has to be a bug.

In retrospect, clearly shooting from that range may not be a good idea anyway because the explosion might kill me too or my Sabre might ingest something from the remains of the MiG and quit flying. That is what happened to me in that IL2-46 simfilm "Mustangs Over Berlin". That may not be modeled in MA.

Try it yourself and LMK if it is the same for you.

JRT
I dusted off my old machine and did some testing. I set the AI to easy, so I could easily saddle up and get real close. I tested �one on one� missions and restarted a new SO.

I set up a sweep mission in the SO and saved it so I could test repeatedly. I called Dentist and he directed me to pods of MIGS. We surprised some of the pods that allowed me to saddle up and shoot before they went evasive. Other groups saw us coming. In each case, I was able close within 100-200�by chopping throttle and speed brake. I could hear my 50 cal bullet hitting like you described. When my bullets hit the MIG , it would jink , jerk , or roll. No MIG disappeared or warped. Damage on the MIGs was as expected. The wing separated from one Mig. Everything seemed to play out normally for me over 12 tests.

When you see the ghost MIGs are you playing the SO, or one of the short campaigns? The short campaigns are known to be buggy, it was recommend to skip them and go directly to the SO. If your playing the SO what area of the map are you in? Are you directed to them by Dentist or are you stumbling on them. I seem to recall something about the last Rowan patch changing how the MIGs would take off. In earlier version I think they actually took off from the airfields, in later patches I think that was changed to starting in flight.

Folks,

Vox:

Thanks. It's good to have some company up there. I'll bet testing never was so much fun in school. I have not seen MiG warping in anything but the Quick Missions. I have played some of the short campaigns but not seen it happen there. Were there no explosions sending MiG parts and parts of MiG pilots in every direction? I wonder what happens when they explode and you are that close?

You can sometime sneak up on 'em when they are streaking for home after the battle is over even when set to veteran or ace and with the AI maxed out. Most times they notice me and take evasive action. Now and again some gomer with a hot date on his mind and nothing else comes along. He's taking a bee line for home whistling his favorite tune and I can just slip in behind him and ruin his plans.

I've noticed lately I've had to back off on the throttle and once or twice reach for the speed brake. I hate to do either but it is far worse to over shoot. They react as you point out, and it takes some swift and fancy stick and rudder work when you get that close just not to hit them or pass them doesn't it? If I can think in time I can try a high roll that brings me back on their tail. Usually it happens so fast I'm lucky not to run into them. I always take a shot. Most times I get a shot off and hear it hit as the looming MiG falls away.

I always try to drop down as quick as I can when I overshoot trying to get out of the other fellow's line of sight. Exactly what that is for an AI pilot I do not know of course. It isn't as if they actually have eyes. They do have guns though and they point out front. If that strategy was good enough for the real Mustang and Sabre aces it is good enough for moi. Even MiGs that are dying will still pepper your butt when you overshoot and tarry in front of them looking over your sholder.

JRT. Yes, testing was a gas. Quick missions ya say -well I�ll have to test that next. Be aware that some of the short campaigns are buggy , I wouldn�t bother too much with them . You can save your missions in the SO. Then you can run these saved mission in any order and link them together to make you own quick missions or little campaigns. Yes, some of the MIG blew up with parts of the wings and fuselage flying all over. I flew right through one of these explosions, with parts zipping over the canopy . I don�t remember ever being damaged by these explosions or flying parts. But I�ve have collided with way too many intact aircraft. I�m always overshooting. I try and roll out to bleed speed but those f86, especially on the drop, are moving way too fast- So I end up using the speed brake. RL firsthand accounts indicate that many of them did the same.

Sometimes you can tell their experience after sneaking up on them, the more experienced will often go into a climbing rolling scissor if they have the speed. While others panic and lose control. You feel almost sorry for those poor guys! MIGs seemingly asleep are sometimes baiting you, so his wing man can take you out. Ya gotta watch your ass. Your own wingman is pretty useful once you learn his tricky natures.

One of the things I like best about MA is that the AI is believable. You never know the quality of pilot you'll be up against in the SO. Could be a raw recruit or a nasty honcho. Rowan did a great job simulating the different levels of pilots encountered by the real f86 pilots. I completed my I think my 6th SO about a year ago. SO strategy is predicable now � I know what it takes to win. But the individual missions are still unpredictable, and I have yet to survive more than half way through the campaign as one pilot character. So I still enjoy firing it up now and then. . gets me thinking..Just who is �Dentist�?
Vox

Folks,

Vox:

I haven't flown a mission in 2 days. I've made a couple of simfilms and wanted to use my own voice sounding like radio chatter. I saw a great Korean Air War simfilm made by someone else and thought they had done a superb job with the radio chatter when I recognized Bill Holden's lines and voice from "The Bridges at Toko-Ri. I managed to get satisfactory results without such a trick but wanted better. I've been messing about with a new sound program I downloaded titled "Reaper". I find it less than intuitive but I think I've got it worried now. I'll get back on the flight line this afternoon.

A buddy of mine, call sign C51, who lives in Toronto has just gotten a copy of MA yesterday and is installing it today. We should be hearing from him very soon.

I have found very little written about "Dentist". I have an extensive library myself but few books on the Korean Air War. My public library hasn't even one book on the subject and only a couple about the Korean War. I've tactfully suggested they might want to rectify this travesty but alas these are difficult times and money is scarce. I know the "Dentist" RADAR site was located on the island of Cho-Do. Wasn't there also another similar warning site call-sign "Shirley"? Not in the game but I think I've seen it mentioned somewhere. Perhaps I'm thinking of Leslie Nielson saying "Don't call me Shirley" in "Airplane"?

Yes, saving missions is a great idea. I have one someone saved and made available for download titled "Downtown". I've previously written a "Here's What Happened" type report of my flying that here. The only complaint I have at the moment is that I need one more hand or at least 4 more buttons on my joystick. Too bad 'She Who Must Be Obeyed" can't just sew a few more on for me.....

Folks,

I keep on learning not only from folks like Vox and Clark but by stumbling blindly into new stuff. Years ago when I first installed MA I must admit that I really didn't take the time to read the manual thoroughly or track down every setting. Recently I realized that with "auto throttle" off I am allowed to get much closer to my prey. Up close and personal in fact.

Auto throttle applies the throttle for you keeping you a safe distance from the other fellow who is withering away in your sights. Odd that I never realized that before. Now I can and will go right up a MiG's tailpipe with predictable results if I am not really careful.