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My first question is about the mystery panels In the SA-5. They are the ones that appear above the speed officer's and the fire control officer's main panels and display the Lissajous curve during AS-3 tracking. Can you tell me their function?

Hi !

Ho know which type of radar?

any idea Hpasp?

It's just radiotransparent hood to protect from the weather.
Inside could be anything. Even the old system.

It's just radiotransparent hood to protect from the weather.
Inside could be anything. Even the old system.


Old system ? Hm ... wher is the old Van & Cables ?
i mean it so clean and clear, that seem as High-Tech one! no?

SA-3 Site in use,


Then . . . empty,


and new Bunker's under construction,

who guess who is the future arrival?

d'nt ask me wher is this site! just guess new arrival!

This is a stationary position. Cables can be in underground tunnels and vans in concrete shelters.
Take a look at a stationary position C-75 in Egypt. (30 05 17 18 C. 31 47 03 04 B)

My bet is for a modern (probably) phased array EW radar.
There is a guy who is expert on this field.
http://geimint.blogspot.com/

In his forum, you probably could got answer.
http://www.makephpbb.com/phpbb/index.php?mforum=geimint

My first question is about the mystery panels In the SA-5. They are the ones that appear above the speed officer's and the fire control officer's main panels and display the Lissajous curve during AS-3 tracking. Can you tell me their function?

This display shows the received signal strength in Epsilon - Summa - Beta.

Both panels has the same image, but with different options.

On the KI-236V panel, it has an illuminated range scale for received signal strength (dB).
At the left side of this panel, there is a "Control" switch (not simulated) with options of self test with the K7 tower.

On the KI-234V panel, this display has no range scale, as there is a separate instrument for more precise received signal strength (dB) indication.

This is a stationary position. Cables can be in underground tunnels and vans in concrete shelters.
Take a look at a stationary position C-75 in Egypt. (30 05 17 18 C. 31 47 03 04 B)

this is an fire control radar, and no radio transparent hood to protect him from the weather.


it's standard position for this kind of fire control radar


even for this detection radar in the same site


may be other Spoon Radar type?

PROBLEM WITH KRUG
I think there is problem in simulation of how KRUG manage centimeter wavelength noise jamming.

I understand that when I have target designated by 1S12M1 SOC radar, the jammed range information is transferred from 1S12M1 to KRUG engagement calculation so I don't need any manual updates of target range - this is how it seems to work in game now anyway.

Problem is that when jamming target is not designated by 1S12M1, its range is anyway always corrected so jamming has practically no effect. I think that this is BUG and when there is no designation from 1S12M1, range for jamming target should not be miraculously corrected.

Any answer?

PROBLEM WITH KRUG
I think there is problem in simulation of how KRUG manage centimeter wavelength noise jamming.
Problem is that when jamming target is not designated by 1S12M1, its range is anyway always corrected so jamming has practically no effect. I think that this is BUG and when there is no designation from 1S12M1, range for jamming target should not be miraculously corrected.

Lets dig deep, how it works

If it receives a cm wavelength jamming, it is constantly measuring the targets elevation angle.
Assuming that the target is not changing its altitude, similarly as the Volhov's I87V method, the target range can be continuously calculated depending its measured elevation.

When the target changes its altitude, (just remember, what was told to Weasel Crews) this method goes crazy...

If it receives a cm wavelength jamming, it is constantly measuring the targets elevation angle.
Assuming that the target is not changing its altitude, similarly as the Volhov's I87V method, the target range can be continuously calculated depending its measured elevation.

It measures target elevation angle but how it knows about range and altitude?
Example - I started in Asuluk and used simulated F-104 with cm jamming - I started to track it as jamming target (without use of 1S12M1) and I saw on Three Dimensional Indicator (Angle Officer�s K81-5A panel) dot of target position - correct one. Thus I don't need to manually input range (or altitude) data as is written in manual on page 48, point 9 - in fact I never need to use this.

If I use S-75 or S-125 I can not determine range (or altitude) without external input (board, P-15/18) but KRUG seems to be able to determine right range and altitude of jamming target automatically.

May be it is that way, I just want to understand.

It measures target elevation angle but how it knows about range and altitude?

It does not knows it.
When you push the PA (Manual Range Tracking) button, than the system calculates the target altitude by the current range gate, and the elevation measured.
From that moment, it continuously updates the target's range by the measured elevation change, assuming, that the target is flying the same altitude.

You can anytime change it.

Be aware, that the successful engagement is not requires exact target range, as the missile is flying 3T method.
The target distance, is only needed, to be able to decide, when to launch...

I played with that a little - purposely insert the most wrong range data in it (on K81-8). Range and altitude on K11-102M1 were really totally erroneous like 100km range and 25km altitude for radar reflector in Asuluk but still on K81-5A was this target nicely shown at range - and that is what I think is weird.

Btw. thank for your patience.


P.S.: To be clear what I mean - I have problem with K81-5A display because when I set manually range to that 100km for radar reflector, the DOT on display was in same place as when I set range to minimum (5km or so).

Your remark is completely right.
This will be corrected in the next release.

Thanks Hpasp.

Hi!
some think wrong in S-125 when shooting RM-217 Zvezda (B-1B),
There is big offset in target distance between P-19 radar and tracking Radar
and the missile go to extreme right (or left), in small distance from target (in end of tracking), and miss the target..
try it! Hpsp and see!

i forgot this: all target can't be locked under 50Km, why?and spoon radar is too slow comparing to last version 921, why?

may be it's because of my old computer ( ) but old release 921 seems more normal, in speed, than this last release 922, i'm really confuse! some advise?

Hallo
I try to answer some of your questions.

the missile go to extreme right (or left), in small distance from target (in end of tracking), and miss the target..
- simulated B-1B goes too high and too fast for S-125 - basically green control indicating that target is in missiles reach would not light up (manual page 34, point 3)

all target can't be locked under 50Km, why?
- that is maximum range for targer tracking (page 13)

spoon radar is too slow comparing to last version 921, why?
- with activated "digital elevation mesh" is demand on computer from game much higher

There is big offset in target distance between P-19 radar and tracking Radar
- may be because P-15/19 is in principle quite inaccurate - Hpasp needs to answer this

Regards

Hi PN79!

....green control indicating that target is in missiles reach would not light up (manual page 34, point 3)
even it's not light, we can hit the target by launching at right time -extreme exactitude-

- that is maximum range for targer tracking (page 13)
that's right for distance, not for (beta) � azimuth, who we can lock it even 80Km,
in V.921 yes we can do that, but not in V.922!

- with activated "digital elevation mesh" is demand on computer from game much higher
yes, it's logic, i will try with "digital elevation" off!

- may be because P-15/19 is in principle quite inaccurate - Hpasp needs to answer this
at the end of tracking, P-15 indicate target less then 10Km, and in traking radar (indicators N1-N2), and target mark at the УК-31М1 indicator is more than 20km !

thank you for answer's PN79!

we wait more answer from the Master Hpasp!

Dear All,

PN79 is right.


- that is maximum range for targer tracking (page 13)
that's right for distance, not for (beta) � azimuth, who we can lock it even 80Km,
in V.921 yes we can do that, but not in V.922!


You cannot move the range boresight over 50km.
But there is one important change in the Neva target tracking system, compared to the earlier versions.
When you start tracking the target (in angles), it should be visible on both I1 and I2 indicator. (It should be within 1.5km of the range boresight)

This is how it works in real life.