homepage Forums Technology Flight Sim Controllers Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread

You'd guess wrong, by quite a large margin.

They sold ~ 40,000 of 'em. Most people who have a problem with something #%&*$# about it long and loud over the internet. An even higher percentage of those who don't have a problem never say a word.

As Nutty said...he'd estimate the number of modified cougars at roughly 3%. Few people know the Cougar like he does.

40,000 units. ~ 1000-1500 of us wanted "somethign extra" and went with Ubers, Evenstrains, Hall mods, Force mods, etc.

Ummmm, I love my Warthog! I would sleep with it but the lights would keep me up at night.......

In my book, it's almost worth the money on looks alone but when you add in the other benefits like hefty buttons and switches it's a no brainer choice if you have the extra money to spend on this hobby.....

With that said, I wish I could somehow install it in my car with a working gatlin gun for those rude drivers.......

PS: I never got far with the Cougar although I also loved the look and feel of it.... the main problem was my lack of time and not the fault of the Cougar which worked great...

I'm at work in case you wonder wtf I'm doing.....

Well lets see...going off of memory from back in Frugals mods and tweaks section of Couarworld forums.

Evenstrain mods - less than 50 made and shipped out (IIRC) and the cost was ~$250 (I got pricing on it when it was offered)
Hall Mods - no other gimbal changes in the stock Cougar...who knows but would guess at least a couple of hundred.
Force Sensor mods - again...not a clue but would guess that it would be easily over 300 from what I remember seeing on Frugals. From Realsimulator the cost on their website is R1 320� + Shipping cost and for R2 450� + shipping cost.
Variations of the Uber mods - Being produced in runs of 25 at the time (IIRC) and I think I was part of run #25 a year or so ago before the Warthog was announced and ended up dropping out due to financial reasons. These suckers were going for ~$400 USD a pop. I would guess that IJ has made about 600 of these puppies for Cougars...that is some nice coin there BTW for a side job or additional income for a business over the last several years.

At any rate I am sure that the estimated number of modified Cougars with modifications that we KNOW about is somewhere in the 1500-2000 range. Of those I would guess that the vast majority of those modifications are either the Ubers or FSSB modifications and that combined they account for just over 1000-1500 of those modifications. Either way that is a pretty good number but still no where near a large percentage of the made quantity of Cougars.

Yes, but surely that's a different scenario.....GPU drivers evolve with the ever changing development of games. An example is DX11 capable cards that hit retail before DX11 games, so there's always going to be some optimisation to do by the likes of Nvidia and AMD to their driver baselines as code optimisation can effect the efficiency and ultimately performance of the GPU. The Warthog is not likely to evolve because as long as T.A.R.G.E.T is as good as Thrustmaster claims it to be then the hardware and software don't need to evolve. I appreciate that there will be some driver/firmware updates in the early days but I'd have liked to think that Thrustmaster would have at least had their driver software ready at the launch and that it would have been thoroughly tested - it obviously wasn't.

In the Warthog's case, 'rolling development' is a nice phrase but when we're talking about the release of hardware with an unfinished software driver that creates additional problems and actually needs a workaround before people can physically use the product, then surely that's a different ball-park altogether.

Teej, you're now claiming that only 3% of users were actually unhappy with their Cougars.....I think you're missing out the number of people who have had faults over the years with the Cougar's components and the people who didn't opt for a modification but simply to replace broken parts.....and what would have people made of the Cougar if Foxy never existed? Do you think everyone would have found the original utilities acceptable? I think half the problem is that many people now take the work of 3rd parties for granted regarding the software and modifications that were made available. They probably saved the Cougar and Thrustmaster from an early grave.......

I don't want to sound negative all the time, but this is a Warthog discussion thread where negative comments should also have a place. Like I've said before, I love my Warthog because it's a great bit of hardware....I just have my fingers crossed that the software will equal it and it won't have the reliability problems of the Cougar. The reason my fingers are crossed is because so far (and I know it's early in the Warthog's life) I personally don't think Thrustmaster have done themselves any favours and certainly haven't done enough at this stage to make me think that their support and attitude have changed after all these years. After the Cougar I would have thought they'd have done everything to ensure the product launch was perfect!! The delays, lack of communication and the way they've gone about the driver release isn't giving me a warm feeling just yet.

Paradaz,

One clarification, and I'm not sure if it changes the intent of your message or not: T.A.R.G.E.T. is not a driver for the HOTAS Warthog - it is simply a programming utility. The Warthog uses standard HID drivers built in to Windows, and this why it can be used without T.A.R.G.E.T. (and why DCS: A-10C beta can be pre-programmed to work with this controller).

Just like the Cougar works without Foxy, the Warthog works without T.A.R.G.E.T. However, both products' capabilities are expanded a great deal when used in conjunction with their powerful programming utilities. Both of these utilities evolved (in the case of the Cougar) and will evolve (in the case of the Warthog) over time. The Cougar went through at least three different firmware versions and more than one version of Foxy as well.

I too wish the software was more developed currently, but there's not much we can do about it. I wish that this software existed a year ago when the Cougar MFD pack was released (and at that time was quite surprised that this product had no available programming software).

Yeah, I know that it doesn't require TARGET but it's obviously quite limited without the programming/macro facility, even as far as that the 2/3 switch buttons lose a lot of the joystick's functionality and doesn't expand the range of commands available for the other buttons. To be honest, we're lucky that the Warthog release co-incided with DCS A10 and that the mapping is quite good without the use of TARGET anyway.

My whole negativity is really based on the current state of TARGET really, I just hope it's not a sign of how it is to be supported in the future - how long are we expected to wait before we can use the full functionality of the HOTAS, given that the hardware hasn't changed since it went firm on the drawing board? The only other concern is the reliability of the Warthog hardware (based only on the Cougar's history) but we're only going to see that over a period of time.

Don't worry, I don't sit here slitting my wrists over what it may turn out like in 6 months time.....As many people are aware, the DCS A10 is a work of art and the HOTAS is sublime with it.

Man, I'm sure glad I don't think about stuff too much. "Get'er dun, get'er dun!" is my motto. Screw thinking.

Nah, I'm not claiming that everyone who had a bad pot went off the deep end and spent more than the cost of the unit to upgrade it. Not by a long shot.

You claimed it was a disaster. If it were a 'disaster' the boards would be flooded with people whining about everything broken, how they tossed their stick in the trash and bought some other brand and whatever. Were there lots? Yeah. Scattered over 10 years. But among them were also PLENTY of people saying they never had a problem and loved their Cougar stock. It's just easier to see the complaints when you've had problems yourself.


People don't call the xbox 360 a disaster and for quite a while after launch, 30-50 percent of them would RROD (red ring of death) soon after purchase. The number is down to 10%, supposedly, now. They're still selling plenty. Electromechanicals will always have failures. We're all just hoping to see TM carry through on the support and so far it seems they are. Having had the pleasure of meeting a fair number of people on the R&D and marketing teams (all the way up to Mr. Guillemot himself), I do believe they're committed. But again...time speaks more than a meeting.

Hehehehehe, I always thought thinking was overrated!! Whoaaa, too much thinking for that there...

Granted, TARGET is a bit rough around the edges...but I'm pretty sure it already meets or exceeds the capability of any other option out there.

What "full functionality of the HOTAS" do you feel is missing, aside from programming the LEDs?

The only problem i have with the Warthog is the baseplate of the stick, which is not wide enough to prevent the whole stick from tilting around a bit.

I had the FFB2 before and it didn't have that problem (mostly because stick is a bit lower and doesn't stick out so far), so it does bother me a bit. Didn't plan to attach the stick to my desk, but i guess i have to do that.

Other then that, i couldn't be any happier with that product. I even got used to the script editor. I had no experience with makros, different layers etc. before, now i couldn't live without it .

The T.A.R.G.E.T is indeed not that refined imo, still a few features missing (trim feature etc.). But i actually got used to just editing the script file with a text-editor and have no real need for the software. Still, it could've been in a more "complete" state right now.

There are functions for T.A.R.G.E.T.-based trim (aka "hardware trim") included in the software. Check out the DCS FC2 A-10A.tmc script file for an example:

If you're looking for a good dealer, I suggest you read about my experience with ShopBLT:

I order on 20 Oct, when all but 1 of the first shipment scheduled for 11/3 from the east coast warehouse (I'm on east coast) were spoken for.

My Eta was still 11/3 until 11/3 came, then my order got pushed back to 11/9. No reasons given, just updated eta.

On about 11/6, the 11/9 shipment was further delayed with a new eta of 11/23.

On 11/12, they tell me that my order cannot ship due to funds not being prepared (they DID give eta of 11/23, not 11 days sooner)

They said they can wait until 11/23 for the funds to be ready on Monday night.

They call last night saying they cannot honor their previous eta or the 407 price unless I have the funds prepared on the phone right then.

Forced to cancel order for 407 price. I guess it's better to honor the eta's for the people paying $100 more and go back on your word.



BLT = never trust a sandwich

Once I saw two or 3 folks get a ship notice from BLT who had placed their order after mine, I cancelled. They claim that if the warehouse where you order came in exhaust supplies, they will move your order to the other warehouse if it has supply. I found this to be not true and rather than playing that game any longer, I placed my order with SCS instead. My Hog shipped today and I should have it in a couple of days.

SCS seems to have their act together!

Owner of a dead WH throttle is waiting for TM Support's answer... It starts again, like nine years ago with my Cougar... I hope they can solve my problem like nine years ago they did...

szoltam, your throttle *should* be up and running again in short order - TM has calibration and firmware tools they'll send you, which should fix it ... at least it did for me. This is of course assuming there isn't something more serious wrong with your throttle unit.

If they'd have made that monstrous baseplate any larger, it'd be ridiculous! Either you've got a significantly heftier spring in yours than I do, or you're just trying to pull the stick farther than it's supposed to travel. Mine does not move, at any extreme. In any case, I'm glad it's removable - I dare say that most folks flying simulators regularly are already accustomed to securing their controls in place.

Are you body checking the stick or something? Propping your feet up against the wall and pushing your back against the stick? I can't see how you're titling "the whole stick" at all. Is your table not level so the little rubber stands don't all touch?

I have the same problem with throttle going dead.