homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation Rise of Flight - The First Great Air War Sopwith Camel Promo Video

Shows what a good stick can do to improve your shooting ability and kill score. Know for sure that he is not using sloppy Saitek X45s as I am in RoF. Would change over to some better HOTAS if my X45s did not work so well with all my other air combat sims.
Great video! Looking forward to flying these new kites.
Thanks,
BadBud
www.simflite.com

Masaq,

I know. I have not had time to respond.

Jason

If the Dr.1 really is very unstable compared with the Camel, they might have read some sources that i don't have.

Ah, too much to think about right now. I'll wait until i've tried those planes out myself.

Well, correct is that it should turn both directions extremely well. It didnt have that Camel "one sidenes" (atleast not nearly in same degree).

Mig,

I've been told different things by different people. So I don't know what the best answer is.

I don't want to get into a flame war over the FMs at this point. True historical data is what I respect most OR the live opinion of someone who has actually flown one of the replicas out there.

I don't know where neoqb get's their data exactly, but their FM guy is indeed good. They do listen to rational arguments, not emotional ones. When discussing FMs with neoqb keep your tone polite.

Jason

Why would these planes turn better right then left? If ....

Prop wash

A propeller pushes air not just horizontally to the back, but more in a twisting helix around the fuselage (clockwise as seen from the cockpit). As the air whirls around the fuselage it pushes against the left side of the vertical tail, causing the plane to yaw to the left. The prop wash effect is at its greatest when the airflow is flowing more around the fuselage than along it, i.e., at high power and low airspeed, which is the situation when starting the takeoff run.

Propeller Torque Effect

Torque effect is the influence of engine torque on aircraft movement and control. It is generally exhibited as a left turning tendency in piston single engine propeller driven aircraft.

According to Newton's law, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction," such that the propeller, if turning clockwise (when viewed from the cockpit), imparts a tendency for the aircraft to rotate counterclockwise, left. Since most single engine aircraft have propellers rotating clockwise, they rotate to the left, pushing the left wing down.

Typically, the pilot is expected to counter this force through the control inputs. To counter the aircraft roll left, the pilot applies right aileron.

It is important to understand that torque is a movement about the roll axis. Aileron controls roll. Prop torque is not countered by moving the rudder or by setting rudder trim. It is countered by moving or trimming the aileron.

This correction induces adverse yaw, which is corrected by moving or trimming the rudder (right rudder).


P-Factor

P-factor is the term for asymmetric propeller loading, causes the airplane to yaw to the left when at high angles of attack.

The descending right side of the propeller (as seen from the rear) has a higher angle of attack than the upward-moving blade on the left side and provides more thrust. This occurs only when the propeller is not meeting the oncoming airflow head-on, for example when an aircraft is moving down the runway at a nose-high attitude (i.e. at a high angle of attack), as is the case with tail-draggers. Aircraft with tricycle landing gear maintain a level attitude on the takeoff run, so there is little P-factor during takeoff. In all cases, though, the effect is weaker than prop wash.

I have just viewed the Fokker DR I wideo. As the post just above says, the Fokker has an engine which rotates clockwise when viewed from the cockpit. So, due to torque effect from the rotary engine, the Fokker should turn slightly better to the left (counterclockwise), like the Nieuport 17 we have currently in game (and which is great modelled on this aspect).
So, can somebody explain how it's possible the Dreideckker has horrible left turn and good right turn? It should be just the opposite?

I'm gonna put up a video tomorrow that shows me practicing my turns. It's not as bad to the left as I sounded. I just needed practice.

I thought it's supposed to turn best in the direction that the motor is rotating which as you state is clockwise.

Right guys? Or am I crazy?

Jason

Nope, it's the contrary. If the engine rotates clockwise, the plane will turn best counterclockwise (take a ride on the Nieuport 17 to make yourself sure about that).

womenfly2, you are forgetting gyroscopic precession.

I don't think precession makes it turn better in either direction, does it? I thought precession just resulted in a nose up pitching force when turning in one direction and a nose-down pitching force when turning in the other, depending on the direction of rotation of the engine and propellor. It doesn't do anything directly to turn rates, AFAIK. Of course, if the aircraft becomes hard to control when turning in a given direction because of precession, that may well influence the turn rate because the pilot will be reluctant to push his luck.

Cheers,

RD.

Yes, this is what I have been experiencing. More so in the DR.1 than the other planes. Rudder usage solves it.

I have another video with me doing some low altitude turns. I'll try to get it up tonight.

Jason

Torque will do lots to roll rate. From reading descriptions of various manoeuvres from literature of the interwar period, I am reasonably convinced that what we now call a roll was referred to as an "aileron turn" and the reference to "faster aileron turn" to the right for a rotary is reflecting the greater roll rate pro-engine-rotation rather than a difference in airframe turn rate or radius when considering translation motion of the centre of mass.

Oof...I prefer to make right hand turns in the NP17; maybe I'm shorting myself!

RocketDog, exactly the conclusion you made is the reason why. It was the easiest way to turn into direction where plane helped you moving nose to maintain speed thus turn rate, as I have written in one of the earlier posts.