homepage Forums Air Combat & Civil Aviation DCS World Flaming Cliffs / LOMAC FC2 vs FC3

Hey there,
I saw that Autumn sale last night and the chance to get FC3 for just 15.99 is very tempting. But I already have FC2 and would like some opinions from those that have FC3.

The basic question is...is it worth getting ? Is it that much better, or different from FC2. I have limited computer time on the weekends, which means I don't get a lot of time to fool around with it but if FC3 is a big leap forward in AI, graphics etc I will buy it. But if its mostly just an update of FC2 with no real "game changers" I will just stick with FC2.

Thanks ! All opinions welcome.

Tracy

I went straight to FC3, so I can't comment on FC2...

...but I'd say the bulk of your decision will hinge on how much you care about multiplayer compatibility with DCS World servers, since that in particular looks like the big draw of FC3 to me.

The Su-25A, A-10A, Su-27S, and F-15C all have new 3d internal and external models. There is also a new missile flight model.

The biggest feature though is its part of DCS World and will therefor benefit from whatever gets added/changed with DCS World. FC3 will receive updates where-as FC2 simply will not.

^ This

being able to fly in DCS World.
Not just newer graphics engine but also the enhanced mission script engine that expands the flexibility and possibility of the gameplay to great extent.

Thanks for the advice, I never play multi-player, but the new cockpits and hooking into the DCS world are definite plusses. Have they added any new campaigns by any chance ? There were not many campaigns in FC2 and the ones they had weren't all that exciting (in my humble opinion).

A new flying sim at that price is just damn hard to pass up, but I'm just a little worried that it won't be different enough from FC2 to really get me interested.

Thanks again for the help.

Tracy

The campaigns for the FC3 planes are different from the ones in FC2 from what I remember of the FC2 campaigns (which isn't much admittedly).

There still aren't many, though. I think it's one per plane for most of them, except 2 for the Su-33 and of the MiGs only the MiG-29S has one, the other 2 don't.



The Jedi Master

Are the user created campaigns for FC2 able to be used for FC3? If not, does the community feel that there is enough interest in FC3 to develop additional campaigns to support it?

No you can't use FC2 Missions in FC3.
FC 3 has a lot of the old FC 2 Campaigns included + a few new ones. It's also possible, that new ones will be added in the future.
Another thing is, that the A 10 already has a new, greatly improved flight model and the F 15 and Su 27 will soon get one.

Thinking about coming on board to FC3 as well. My two big questions about FC3 (being an Eagle Fanboi):
1-Have they fixed the F-15Cs thrust:Weight ratio? It should be easy to get this thing up to 35-40 K, but I had to sit in AB to keep from stalling, even in an empty jet. I've talked with Eagle pilots- it has plenty of go up to 45K plus.

Wingmen AI. Sometimes, they stuck in there great, other times, they'd just fly out over the Black Sea, flame out and eject.

Oh, three things, really. Any other theaters? I saw some shots of Nevada a while back. Is this included, or an add-on? Or even a mod?

Thanks in advance.

Not sure if the F-15C had any SFM changes made from FC2 to FC3. However they are making an advanced flight model for it, but there isn't a whole lot of details on performance differences yet.

I don't fly with AI wingmen so I don't know if anything has changed.

Nevada is on the way as an official terrain that will probably cost at least a little. It was a pre-order bonus for the A-10C, and they have said that they want to honor that. So if you pre-ordered A-10C you should get Nevada.

Currently, I haven't noticed any real changes in the F-15 since FC2. However, Belsimtek (people who did the UH-1H) are apparently nearing completion of the AFM for the F-15C, bringing it to the same level as the A-10s and Su-25s. Reference this thread for more info.


Eagle Dynamics AI is still wonky. I don't think these sort of things happens as much, but stuff like this still happens.



None yet. ED is currently finishing (hopefully) work on their new graphics engine: EDGE, which will amongst other things change how terrain is rendered and created. It is also incompatible with current terrains apparently, due to a switch from x32 to x64. Nevada is going to be the showcase engine for that if you will. Once EDGE is finalized and pushed out, you can expect to see 3rd party terrains appearing. As it is, it doesn't make sense to develop for a system that will soon be obsolete.

You also might want to know that air to air missiles are kind of broken in DCS world currently. It effects both sides evenly, but it's still frustrating as a fighter pilot.

"Too frustrating for missiles, switching to guns..."




The Jedi Master

"I had the shot, there was no danger, so I took it... and it missed. As did the next several. I then rammed my aircraft into Jester's in frustration."

It was entirely possible to fly at 40000' with nominal payload in MIL power, but not if you decide to to get up there at too slow a speed - just like in the real deal.
In any case, FC3 saw more tuning of the SFM, not all of which had to do with the F-15's engines.

Nope. Still grossly underpowered and hard to maneuver. At least for me. Need to be in AB to scoot. But the perception of speed is better than in BMS.

Based on what? Did you compare to an F-15C -1?

The new cockpits and the AFM for the A-10 and Su-25 is great, but the thing that I really like is being able to use the DCS World mission editor. The FC2 mission editor really turned me off to creating multiplayer missions since there was no way to copy/paste a route, and you couldn't have more than one client in a flight.

You're still restricted to one client per flight, but copying and pasting a route is now very easy to do.

Frankly, how close or not it is to some authority's real-world figures is immaterial to me.

What matters is relative performance. I don't care if it takes 2 mins longer to get to Mach 2 @36k than it does in real life.

I DO care if a MiG-29 can effortlessly out-accelerate and outrun me without AB while I'm in full burner, he doing 900+ or so @1k while I'm falling ever further behind, 400 or so with nothing but AAMs, even in a dive. If every plane is similarly hamstrung and under-performing, fine, but I shouldn't feel like I'm flying a 747 while the MiG-29 is handling like a TIE fighter.

TBH I've not tried this in FC3, but I had it happen in FC2 and it really irritated me to the point that I quit flying the AA jets and stuck with the 10 and 25/T in FC2 until I canned it when FC3 came out.




The Jedi Master

Then how can you know or even simulate relative performance?



MiG-29's have pretty good supersonic performance, and an overall high TWR. The faster you're going, the faster you go faster, so it's quite normal to get left behind if you don't start at a good speed.
FC3 did fix a lot of stores drag issues though, and the AFMed F-15 will fix even more (Specifically drag issues with fuel tanks).

While I don't recall if those adjustments were done in FC2, in FC3 all the aircraft conform quite closely to their real performance curves in terms of thrust and acceleration.

If you don't like the relative performance you're seeing from that, that's too bad, but it isn't wrong.

Enjoy having more hairs now than you did before?
My point is I don't care if the plane is doing Mach 2 or 2.2, or if it takes 5 mins or 10 to get there, but I do NOT expect it to fly as if it's a fully loaded F-15E when it's a clean F-15C. Likewise I know the 29 is not a 5th-gen fighter in disguise as a 4th gen.



F-15C, clean, 1/2 fuel, in a full-AB dive from 20k ft...max speed was like 500, and in fact as alt dropped it also dropped. It was JUST breaking Mach 1.
MiG-29, clean, probably the same fuel, in level flight at 1000ft with NO AB...cruising at 900. No burner needed to maintain. Mach 1.5+. The 29 doesn't supercruise at 1000ft!

There is no world where this makes sense.






The Jedi Master