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Hpasp #3591319 06/13/12 08:04 PM
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Hpasp, big "thank you" for your explanations! thumbsup

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

Hpasp #3591320 06/13/12 08:07 PM
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Quote:
am I confusing?

No, you are perfect as always...

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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
I was wondering about the spiral antennae on the HARM seeker - ie. why do it this way instead of just four simple dipoles. I wonder if the varying width of the antenna helps it capture multiple wavelengths simultaneously, which would certainly help the seeker cope with radars of various wavelengths.

At the same time, my naive understanding of radio mechanics tells me that it would be blind to a bunch of wavelengths because of this as well (but you get a lot of bandwidth to help you deal with actual threat/guidance radars, so it's not all bad).


It is interesting that the British Sea Dart naval SAM missile has four such dipoles protruding from the front. I guess this is exactly the kind of system you wrote about, a narrowband interferometer-based anti-radiation homing system for use against jammer aircraft.


Hpasp #3591356 06/13/12 09:28 PM
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The US Talos system (the original long SAM in western the western world) also used the same set of antennaes at the front for SARH.

-Jenrick

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That is indeed interesting, and if it is also used for SARH, even more so since the seeker is not mobile. Does anyone have additional documentation for this missile?

Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357
It is interesting that the British Sea Dart naval SAM missile has four such dipoles protruding from the front. I guess this is exactly the kind of system you wrote about, a narrowband interferometer-based anti-radiation homing system for use against jammer aircraft.


--
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Hpasp #3591499 06/14/12 04:37 AM
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Here's details on how the Talos system worked:

http://www.okieboat.com/History%20guidance%20and%20homing.html

-Jenrick

jenrick #3591530 06/14/12 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: jenrick
Here's details on how the Talos system worked:

http://www.okieboat.com/History%20guidance%20and%20homing.html

-Jenrick


Wow, that's detailed description! Thank you, Jenrick!

Hpasp #3591692 06/14/12 04:33 PM
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It's impossible to shoot down F-14s near Sirt, even with nuclear Vegas. They turn around right after you fire and mess up your radar, turning that switch on the bottom of the speed radar screen to the left will not help either. Is there maybe a way to get the vega's to detonate manually?

Hpasp #3591693 06/14/12 04:33 PM
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o0o0o my god ! i thinked sa-2 sa-3 and sa-5 deactive from this country! i was wrong thumbsup

this pictures is little new !

Report training (asuluk) missile defense exercise in Sary Shagan, Kazakhstan
RTFM



missile sucide biggrin why that missile exlode very soon? i guess that is a s-200



sa-2 volhov biggrin





sa-3


sa-5



and thee end biggrin our best dream



Last edited by milang; 06/14/12 04:47 PM.
Hpasp #3591736 06/14/12 06:13 PM
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Miliang, Could you share the link, please?

Originally Posted By: jazjar
It's impossible to shoot down F-14s near Sirt, even with nuclear Vegas. They turn around right after you fire and mess up your radar, turning that switch on the bottom of the speed radar screen to the left will not help either. Is there maybe a way to get the vega's to detonate manually?


Yep... They cannot be detonated by command like SA-2's...

Last edited by piston79; 06/14/12 06:16 PM.
Hpasp #3592010 06/15/12 03:46 AM
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Then how did Alien Master Mynd manage to do it?

farokh #3592031 06/15/12 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: milang
o0o0o my god ! i thinked sa-2 sa-3 and sa-5 deactive from this country! i was wrong thumbsup

this pictures is little new !

Report training (asuluk) missile defense exercise in Sary Shagan, Kazakhstan
RTFM



missile sucide biggrin why that missile exlode very soon? i guess that is a s-200



Yep... We, in Kazakhstan, are still using all of these... On the other hand, we don't need to fight against U. S. or Israel, so they are still more or less adequate. In few years, though, S-300's will arrive from Russia to replace S-75 and S-200, so these are probably the last such exercises for them.

jazjar #3592054 06/15/12 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: jazjar
Then how did Alien Master Mynd manage to do it?


My bad, we can kill F-14, but not A-7's.... banghead yep

jazjar #3592060 06/15/12 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: jazjar
Then how did Alien Master Mynd manage to do it?

Just look at Vega flight envelope, what those F-14s do before and after launch and the solution is right in front of your eyes thumbsup
You can succesfully get at least one F-14 with a conventional warhead. With a nuclear one you get both of them in one bang :-)

piston79 #3592061 06/15/12 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Then how did Alien Master Mynd manage to do it?


My bad, we can kill F-14, but not A-7's.... banghead yep

Yes we can't, I have to do a bit of investigation on this field yet. I acquired it a few times, but RSSI was too low :-(

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Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Then how did Alien Master Mynd manage to do it?

Just look at Vega flight envelope, what those F-14s do before and after launch and the solution is right in front of your eyes thumbsup
You can succesfully get at least one F-14 with a conventional warhead. With a nuclear one you get both of them in one bang :-)


Now we are getting deep into S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B) tactics...
When the F-14's are doing their loop, their speed drops down, so in (MHI) "Mono-Chromatic Emission" mode (English manual page 15), the CW radar will loose them.
You need to switch it into (FM) "Frequency Modulation" mode.

Please check manual page 50.

"To be able for the GSN to auto track the target after launch, the received signal strength should be over 34dB, a significant increase (almost x10!) ..."

So when you switch into FM, missiles will probably loose tracking due the small RCS of the F-14's...
(check "Z" panel, KRO signals)

You need to go back from FM to MHI as soon as possible, to give your missiles time for target reacquisition!
(check RAZRESH. FM. red warning light on panel "C")
dizzy

Last edited by Hpasp; 06/15/12 09:07 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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Hpasp #3592077 06/15/12 09:12 AM
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Yes and shoot when they are as close as possible, else your missiles won't last long enough in the dense air (F-14s will descent to 1,5km if I remeber it correctly).

Hpasp #3592078 06/15/12 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

When the F-14's are doing their loop, their speed drops down, so in (MHI) "Mono-Chromatic Emission" mode (English manual page 15), the CW radar will loose them.

Maybe you should better state that their speed relative to a 5N62 drops and go below zero.

piston79 #3592079 06/15/12 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Then how did Alien Master Mynd manage to do it?


My bad, we can kill F-14, but not A-7's.... banghead yep


A-7's are there to kill You, not the other way around!
neaner



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

When the F-14's are doing their loop, their speed drops down, so in (MHI) "Mono-Chromatic Emission" mode (English manual page 15), the CW radar will loose them.

Maybe you should better state that their speed relative to a 5N62 drops and go below zero.


Correct!
thumbsup

We as a CW radar FCO's, are always considered about "Angular Velocity of the Target".


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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