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"Suddenly the Libyans fired two Gammons at the Fighting Diamondbacks. The F-14's, which were warned of the activation of the Square Pair radar by the Hawkeyes, avoided the lumbering missiles by diving to the surface. While EA-6B Prowlers jammed the fire control radar, the SA-5s continued their long-range, high-altitude flight before crashing harmlessly into the sea."Joseph T. Stanik, El Dorado Canyon Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Maryland http://www.amazon.com/El-Dorado-Canyon-Reagans-Undeclared/dp/1557509832Best book on this topic!  o my god... good job mr.hp u mean is... before hit f-14 we have to hit EA-6 ... corect???
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I don't know. I've never noticed the jamming affecting my missiles. Someone is clearly telling them when I've launched missiles, but the problem is apparently the missile's ability to last long enough at low altitude to reach the fleeing F-14.
Just let them get to under 90km before shooting and you'll have a fighting chance of a hit.
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Someone is clearly telling them when I've launched missiles "Hawkeye" or battle ships... As we see our missile on P-14, so the enemy do... While EA-6B Prowlers jammed the fire control radar.... At this particular scenario, Prowlers are way aside the Tomcats... And jamming is vissible only on P-14. Maybe they are jamming on side lobes (in reality), but it is not simulated here.
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Last edited by milang; 05/17/12 04:32 PM.
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Hi, couple of questions... Is it possible in the real live to AS the jamming targets with SA-2 and 3? Because I think it doesn't... Of course we cannot track in RS and I believe by allowing AS on the noise it's like have a pair of very skilful operators...  Also, I believe it's good (in the SIM), when we hit the jammer, and it stopes transmition, we should loose AS (on SA-2 particularry). As I knew, when two targets are very close one to each other and the signal fluctuation is big, it could result in a loosing AS. Disappearing of the noise jamming is a prety big signal fluctuation, isn't it? In real life, there are 3 ways of tracking the target with the Volhov. 1, FCO tracking in Epsilon/Beta/Range (his wheels are pulled out, towards him) We are acting, as player ------------------------------------------- AI acting 2, RS - manual tracking by Epsilon/Beta/Range tracker (FCO wheels are pushed in (you can hear it in the sim), away from him) 3, AS - automatic tracking by the system The sim has AI Epsilon/Beta/Range tracker, so we only act as the FCO. The FCO gives the control to the trackers by pushing his wheel, and RS(!!!) lamps will indicate it at the "Z" panel. The AI trackers will decide if they track it in AS or in RS. When the target disappears, the manual trackers change to RS, and keep the antenna moving try to find the target. Am I confusing?  Epsilon tracker RS-AS selector:   Note, that he change the system Epsilon speed, not the Epsilon directly like the FCO. (this is why lockdown is implemented)
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/18/12 09:50 AM.
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Tough night of Tripoli... ... (non-historical) KRUG hit by HARM. 
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 no one likes me why 
Last edited by milang; 05/18/12 05:04 PM.
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Thak you, Sir! As I understand it correctly we do not have full AS (in the SIM)...  Thanks again... Another one: Did you think to reconsider limitations of the killing zone for SA-2 against high speed targets (>800 m/s) in T/T guidance (it would make all SR-71 scenarious useless, but still...):
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I'm out of this forum and you will not see my color and my stress was enough to be comfortable and unobtrusive God is bless u my firends 
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Thak you, Sir! As I understand it correctly we do not have full AS (in the SIM)... Thanks again... nonono. We have user controlled FCO tracking, AI controlled RS, and AI controlled AS. Just difficult to explain... FCO tracking is controlled by You. You can give the control to the AI code. AI will decide if he do AS or RS. (different part of the code in the program) Basically, if the target is visible, it will track it in AS. If the target is disappeared (jamming off, High voltage or ANT off), it will try to maintain its track in RS. If it is in RS and, the target becomes visible, it goes back to the AS code from the RS part of the program.
Another one:
Did you think to reconsider limitations of the killing zone for SA-2 against high speed targets (>800 m/s) in T/T guidance (it would make all SR-71 scenarious useless, but still...):
What limitations? (Do not get it...)
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/19/12 09:51 AM.
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maybe I am confused because when we (FCO) transfered the tracking to the AI trackers, green RS lights are lit all the time (probably because they show us (FCO), that we are not in bussiness and not only that the system is in RS) and it seems that there is only RS (which I wrongly tought that is AS. The point is that I cannot distinguished when we are on RS or AS...  About the killing zone - the pictured showed the killing zone in T/T mode of the missiles against a different speeds of the target. It is clear that SA-2 cannot achieve more than 16 km height against target faster than ~800 m/s.
Last edited by piston79; 05/19/12 10:15 AM.
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That should already be present - T/T requires an increasing LOS rate that should exceed missile capability at some point, as the LOS rate increases due to increased elevation angle (and thus crossing angle) and reducing range (ditto). At the same time the missile performance is reducing because of falling velocity and air-density.
On the other hand a lead-pursuit course has no limitation - so long as the missile can reach the target altitude it is possible to 'park' the missile ahead of a non or poorly manoeuvring high speed aircraft.
I think these 'limitations' are also not sharply defined, but describe probability and energy contours - the performance "outside" the envelope may not be significantly worse than inside, but be considered inefficient.
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maybe I am confused because when we (FCO) transfered the tracking to the AI trackers, green RS lights are lit all the time (probably because they show us (FCO), that we are not in bussiness and not only that the system is in RS) and it seems that there is only RS (which I wrongly tought that is AS. The point is that I cannot distinguished when we are on RS or AS... In reality, the Manual Trackers should shout "Epsilon AS!", "Beta AS!", "Range AS!", when they switch from RS. No other feedback for the FCO.
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That should already be present - T/T requires an increasing LOS rate that should exceed missile capability at some point, as the LOS rate increases due to increased elevation angle (and thus crossing angle) and reducing range (ditto). At the same time the missile performance is reducing because of falling velocity and air-density.
On the other hand a lead-pursuit course has no limitation - so long as the missile can reach the target altitude it is possible to 'park' the missile ahead of a non or poorly manoeuvring high speed aircraft.
I think these 'limitations' are also not sharply defined, but describe probability and energy contours - the performance "outside" the envelope may not be significantly worse than inside, but be considered inefficient. This is why HABU always flying a curve in the firing zone of the SA-2. (lead point is never stable) 
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Besides SA2 "Dvina" did hit the Habu (at least) once. So it is not an impossibility. How much better it could have done with better understanding of the performance/targeting requirements is not certain, but immunity is confirmed as unavailable. The light damage received could have been more serious had it hit a critical component, rather than an unimportant area of the wing fillet.
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Besides SA2 "Dvina" did hit the Habu (at least) once. Yep, but bet it is not in T/T mode... As the pilot itself describes the missile path - definitely not T/T... but immunity is confirmed as unavailable Still they not afraid to overfly Libya no matter presence of "Volhov" In reality, the Manual Trackers should shout "Epsilon AS!", "Beta AS!", "Range AS!", when they switch from RS.
Same with NEVA (where FCO is a range tracker), but still he has a light on his panel.... How it is on the SIM (how AI behaves in the SIM?)...
Last edited by piston79; 05/20/12 07:27 PM. Reason: SA-3
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farokh Member
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What officially happened to the Shilka?Systems currently simulated are too complex to be operated by terrorists. I would really like to avoid the SAMSIM to be called a "Terrorist Training Tool", and the Shilka is only requiring few people to shot a plane... ... also its not a SAM.  I was able to extract from this piece is a joke ....i thinked talk about this at older page!! i most repeat because i thin u guys forget it for future!!! terrorrist at east or west wourld never used for themself operation!! because shilka loock like a big machine so doing hiding for this system away from nato eyes is so harD !!! so we can extract a new result! trorrist never used shilka because this system is like a big machine!!! themself use always ilga or stinger .... some like theesee because this systems is very easily to use than shilka .. shilka is a big machine like a tank ! and cant no where hided from weseals nato pilot !
Last edited by milang; 05/21/12 02:10 PM.
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ZSU23-4 and all the other mobile AAA/tactical SAMs are autonomous units - one or two men can operate the weapons system, a third can make it mobile and effective from the short-halt.
This is very different from the massive fixed infrastructure or column of vehicles needed to employ any of the existing SAM types.
A single vehicle is fairly easy to place into a hide position, and with optical channels and possible employment in 'non-warzones' where SEAD is non-existant it could be a serious threat.
Additionally the training in how to target a given target (sight picture, lead angle, range etc, would also apply to the ZU23, and to a lesser extent the ZU4, which are much more common and 'tactically' diverse than an AFV.
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I think if there would be terror act against any plane (I hope it will never happen) that would most likely be manpad, especially now when huge amount of ilga's/strelas were looted from Gaddafi weapon stores by "rebels" and went to black market / over borders.
As i remember there was chinese airforce footage where they were using LockOn as training simulator. In ED forums devs admitted that they weren't aware of that. Who knows, maybe some air defense forces now are training on SAMSIM.
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HOA's
by Terl9999 - 09/18/26 04:12 AM
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Football
by Terl9999 - 09/18/26 02:42 AM
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Flags
by Terl9999 - 09/15/26 10:03 PM
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