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So fascinating. It's like a new look into history. With some sort of funny stories.

So fascinating. It's like a new look into history. With some sort of funny stories.

Priceless... Could you share whole document?

Hi Hpasp,

I remember you've wrote (in previous topic maybe), about that how mush is the lead in "UPR" and "K" modes in S-75. Could you wrote it again?

Sure thing. http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_0000192682/DOC_0000192682.pdf

I remember you've wrote (in previous topic maybe), about that how mush is the lead in "UPR" and "K" modes in S-75. Could you wrote it again?

Max 4 degrees from the bore-sight.

That would also be great but please (to Hpasp) model a modern Korea scenario like I sugested a few posts before here in this thread (like I previously said, this scenario would allow the player to play with all the SA-2, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5 SAMs currently modeled in the sim in a hard, challenging and plausible "what-if" scenario ).

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
I'm wondering if we can have few scenarios of Chinese using S75 to down RB57. It's probably not challenging like shooting Gary Powers, but interesting never the less. What say you?
I would need map of the event, location of the SAM batteries (preferably Google Earth Coordinates), and name of the Batteries.


That probably will be problematic to find. I'll try to search CIA but probably I will not find anything enough to model this.

I have maps of the "Maj.Rudolf Anderson" incident over Cuba.
Sometimes later it might be on the sim, but I still not found the SAM battery site in Google Earth.
(Cloud is over the suspected area)

Hi Hpasp,

In "Habu" scenarios, I've noticed that on the plotting table, it doesn't change his altitude (alwways 240), but we knew that it is climbing (usually over Hanoi area should be 242). And when it is falling, it doesn't change his altitude too... I don't know about other scenarios, but on Ashuluk target's altitude have been updated on the plotting table on minute basis. I had another in mind... As we know, when U-2 was shot down over Sverdlovsk, it starting to desintegrate and S-75 crew thought there is a chaff cloud outthere and continued to shoot against every target they saw ( unfortunately Safonov's MiG-19). When we hit target, even in miss distance at < 10 metters, it always stay as one piece 'till hit the ground. Do you think it's worthy to make them to desintegrates on parts or in slowly disappiaring cloud of debries, or it's too much programing for a bit of special effects?

That would also be great but please (to Hpasp) model a modern Korea scenario like I sugested a few posts before here in this thread (like I previously said, this scenario would allow the player to play with all the SA-2, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5 SAMs currently modeled in the sim in a hard, challenging and plausible "what-if" scenario).

To be as realistic as possible, I do quite a deep historical research before adding any new scenarios.
I used to have maps with (timed) flight routes (preferably from both side), location of SAM units (to have realistic ground clutter), missile inventory, etc...

I still have in my bag several other days of already included Scenarios.
Vietnam (SA-2) Linebacker-II
Egypt (SA-2/3/6/Shilka) Wart of Attrition
Cuba (SA-2) Missile Crisis (U-2)

Also have in my bag lots of new Real Scenarios with more advanced adversary.
Libya (SA-2/3/5/6/Shilka) Operation Prairie Fire & El-Dorado Canyon (HARM, F111)
Serbia (SA-3/6) Operation Allied Force & Operation Deny Flight (Stealth, Weasels, HARM, etc...)
Syria (SA-2/3/5/6/Shilka) Operation Peace for Galilee (Weasels)
Saudi Arabia (Patriot) Operation Desert Storm & Operation Iraqi Freedom (SCUD, Iraqi Cruise Missiles)

So in the far future (time permitting), I would rather create these...

Iraqi Cruise Missiles???

Iraqi Cruise Missiles???

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-Cruise-Missiles.html#mozTocId21144

This one deserves one look too:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA421607

In "Habu" scenarios, I've noticed that on the plotting table, it doesn't change his altitude (alwways 240), but we knew that it is climbing (usually over Hanoi area should be 242). And when it is falling, it doesn't change his altitude too...

I checked the code, and it seems, that it keeps his altitude at 24000, climbing is not simulated.
(probably the real climbed altitude was so little, that there was no point to simulate it)

I don't know about other scenarios, but on Ashuluk target's altitude have been updated on the plotting table on minute basis.

Killed target data is not updated.

I had another in mind... As we know, when U-2 was shot down over Sverdlovsk, it starting to desintegrate and S-75 crew thought there is a chaff cloud outthere and continued to shoot against every target they saw ( unfortunately Safonov's MiG-19). When we hit target, even in miss distance at < 10 metters, it always stay as one piece 'till hit the ground. Do you think it's worthy to make them to desintegrates on parts or in slowly disappiaring cloud of debries, or it's too much programing for a bit of special effects?

Falling debris simulation is not planned currently.

On the AAR it is stated usually 24.1 km or 24.2 km in the moment of the launching the first missile. Yes, 100 or 200 meters is not very much and maybe is not important, I just asked. So in fact SR-71 doesn't climb on the plotting table, but it does during flight, right?

As per "Silkworm" and others, I knew them but didn't know Iraq used them, not to mentioned against ground target. The information I've added to the topic is very surprising - it appears that US forces doesn't even detect any of those 5 launches! Bet Serbs did it better against "Tomahawk"!

Hi Hpasp,

On Sverdlovsk scenario, the number of available missiles is zero for every batterie. Still, it shows on some launcher and it is preparing missile on it. Is it because the missile is 11D, not 13D. Anyway it's a little confusing...

On Sverdlovsk scenario, the number of available missiles is zero for every batterie. Still, it shows on some launcher and it is preparing missile on it. Is it because the missile is 11D, not 13D. Anyway it's a little confusing...

Will be corrected in v923.1


You will also get the high level radio proxy simulation...
... to make life harder/more realistic

Humm, I see.
But wouldn't for example "Syria - Operation Peace for Galilee" or the "Libyan operations (Operation Prairie Fire & El-Dorado Canyon)" if done as realistic as possible be just too hard and therefore un-interesting for the SAM simulator players since in real life NO opposing enemy aircraft was shot down in those operations in real life (with the exception of operation El-Dorado Canyon where only one F-111 was shot down) - So couldn't it be that if those scenarios are made for SAM simulator that NO player would be able to shot down any enemy aircraft (or hardly any aircraft)? If yes, which is what I believe than these scenarios wouldn't IMO be very "thrilling" for the player.

IMO, the best realistic scenarios that (again IMO) could or should be modeled in SAM simulator due to being either "thrilling" and "challenging" are:
- Yom Kippur (1973) -> SA-2, SA-3 and SA-6 SAMs were present and several Israeli aircraft were shot down (more than 100 aircraft were shot down) and most of them were shot down by SAMs (and AAA). This scenario would also have the advantage of not only allowing the modeling of Egyptian SAMs (like happens in "War of Attrition") but also Syrian ones.
- Desert Storm (1991) played by the Iraqi perspective/side -> SA-2, SA-3, SA-6 SAMs and Shilka were present and a considerable number of coalition aircraft were shot down (around 50 aircraft were shot down) being the vast majority shot down by SAMs (and AAA). This scenario at the same time would be very challenging due to the heavy presence of enemy/coalition ECMs and HARM missiles.

Well, these are my "2 cents"...

Can't wait.

"Realistic" - that's the goal, does it?

No can not wait for Release 923.1

Shilka and the Patriot can wait, but can not 923.1