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That works. A bit of a duh moment.

Hi, Hpasp, I think that in next version of SIM

It will contain the SA-75MK Dvina (SA-2F) system, with the toughest attack on Hanoi, planned at the end of this year.

Next year, there will be a planned vote on the forums about the future development of the sim...
... probable directions I see now.

- ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka system


- MIM-104C Patriot PAC-2 system


- Mission Editor with create/save/load possibility



- ...

If you got enough to do that, then PAC-2 first, otherwise the Shilka.

That means you're stopping any developments on existing systems on the Simulator?...

That means you're stopping any developments on existing systems on the Simulator?...

No, they are also added.
(Like KRUG anti jamming mode changes, Volhov Radio Proxy corrections, etc...)

Nice readings...


(FM-44-15-1 Operations and Training Patriot)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27830573/FM-44-15-1-Operations-and-Training-Patriot-17-February-1987
[Approoved for public release; distributionis unlimited]

(FM-44-85 Patriot Battalion and Battery Operations)
http://www.ausairpower.net/FM-44-85-Patriot-Battalion-and-Battery-Operations.pdf
[Approoved for public release; distributionis unlimited]

.... aaand SA-2 SNR and launchers epsilon degree tracking and "PUSK" limitations, right?

I found a video on how to use S75. Now I can swap flying targets at a range. What about the rest of systems? Is there such thing where person walks how to lub missiles?

Here's a quick simplified guide for beginners like me.



Click Asuluk to enter live practice range


Click "1" button to select LA-17 "simulated F-86" drone.
Click "2" button to add that that drone.
Click "3" button to add missiles to yourself.
Click "4" button to start sim.


This is a "Q" panel

"1" button to turn on generator
"2" button to power on radar
"3" button to extend radar
"4" button to arm warheads. click all 3 in up position.
"5" button to move switch to left so missile will fly on channel-1
"6" button to turn on "BP" "combat mode".
"7" button to 3 to align gyros in first 3 missiles (warning, do this before shooting or gyros overheat)
"8" button to switch "wide" radar mode
"9" button to switch "narrow" radar mode
"10" button to switch to "pencil" mode (used during final guidance)
"11" height / distance switch. Right = distance.
"13" displays height / distance
"14" displays velocity m/c
"15" displays height in km
"16" button to turn off sim


So my method right now is "1 , 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 11"



"X" screen for early warning dish.
You can see target is about 62km away at heading (azimuth) 070.


"A" radar screen.
"1" heading
"2" height
"3" range
Left click in the middle of circle and drag left/right to move line. Once line is centered over radar blip, right click to auto-follow. Start from 1 - 2 - 3.

"Z" panel

"1" button selects missile guide mode (3 point-special / half-lead/ 3 point / ground)
"2" screen. Black mark points where radar looking. Red where missile is looking. Left round screen - height and right is heading.
"3" Launch button for missile #1. Right under it are two lamps "left = missile ready" and "right = launcher ready"
"4" button aligns missile rail when missile is ready.
"5" switches radar power from 150km to 75km.
"6" light shows when height/heading/range is locked.

Here I'd click "5" button to change radar power.

Then switch to "Q" panel and align gyros ("7") and switch to narrow radar mode ("9")
Then go to "Z" panel and align missile rails ("4"). In few seconds both (missile /rail) buttons should light up.
When target is at ~50km away, and still locked up - launch missile ("Z" panel, button "3")


Switch to "A" screen.
"1" switches between zoomed radar scope view. "2" in right position shows launch parameters.
"3" is your missile.
There is also a light on top of screen title "25 seconds until meeting". When it lights up it's good idea to switch pencil radar mode. ("Q" screen, button "10")


Switch to "A" scope screen and watch bleep meet bleep.


Then turn off sim by at "Q" panel and button "16"

You should see something similar....

Hpasp, why the interest in the PATRIOT missile system? Did you like the workplace?

Hpasp, why the interest in the PATRIOT missile system? Did you like the workplace?

Yes, but there are several reasons...
- Slowly running out of possible systems to be simulated.
- Availability and amount of non Confidential information makes possible to create a realistic SIM.
- Systems currently depicted were developed in the '50s~'60s. Patriot is the system of the '70s~'80s.
- Clean, logical, user friendly interface.

- Always wanted to play with a multichannel system...
... think of a historical scenario, with 32 ready to launch missiles, with 160km range.


On the negative side, I have no possibility in Hungary to photo the inside of the ECS.

Alternatively a synthetic panel can be drawn...

Still, a lot of things can be done on current SAM's in the SIM. Just finish the Dvina and Shilka.... There is enormouse ground for fine tunning for SA-2 to SA-5....

I was thinking for history scenarios. Now we fight alone, even in scenarios, when we are in the sistem of entire PVO organization.... (in fact, only Serbian scenario is like "onne on one"). With incoming LIBIA '86 scenario and so, I start feeling that we will hear the sound of drumming pieces from our own equipment over our heads more often then my heart can take... Because running the Sim over inernet (with some kind of cooperative missions) with other fellow simmers is not an option, some kind of AI for my neighborh batteries could be a great help...

More than that available for the S-300 (personally I'll prefer that but you say you don't have enough)? Those manuals you linked to are nice but seem to have less detail on missile or radar performance than Wikipedia.

I'm having a really difficult time shooting down the SR-71 in the Hanoi Linebacker scenario. In the 13:45 scenario I've tried most of the SA-2 sites with no success. The missiles seem to stop tracking about 2/3's of the way to the target. I locate the target and lock on in azimuth and elevation, select left-most (N-87B T/T) targetting mode, set the altitude via the upper left-most knob (I've tried setting the altitude to 240 and to the altitude shown on the "H" dial) without success. I've tried firing before and after setting off the jamming pod on the SR-71, but the missiles still fail to track after about 2/3 the way downrange. Yes, I do make sure to align the launchers to the target before firing.
I read the post saying that there is only one site that can hit the target, but obviously haven't found it. Can anyone offer advice for success?

If this scenario is when the SR-71 comes from south, you should pick the battery with 4 missiles.... Launch in "UPR" mode and after SR-71 starts jamming, switch to I-187 mode (this is one of three switches for one of the three chanels which guides the missiles) and then you should switch the calculating mode to "I-187" mode too ( it is in the middle of the bord which is under the two displays, showing the positions of antenas and launchers....). Push "Pusk" button when SR-71 is at 90 km distance from you.... In fact SR-71 travels with the speed of the SA-2 missile, so if you want to kill him, you should keep that in mind.... Second option is to launch in "t/t" mode with "Rab. ot vr." ('cause SR-71 didn't jam your missile guide channels)... Do your first launch when "Habu" is 90 km from you, launch 3 missiles and everything is ok!

What about the SA-6 or the SA-8? If possible, would I really like to have the priveledge of operating the SA-6.

I apologize up front and please forgive me for sounding like the devil's advocate. I do not agree that a fully accurate sim can be made for this weapons system as of yet for the following reasons:



I disagree. I don't think that there is not enough open source [non confidential] information to accurately produce a sim for the PATRIOT Air Defense System. Without getting into the performance of the MIM-104 missile, or the AN/MPQ-53 radar, the operation of this system is not limited to just the switches and indicators on the operator's console. This weapon system is software driven; therefore, the operators program it by making entries into various menus establishing the operating parameters needed for their defense mission. Furthermore, this weapons system is adaptable, these menu entries, as well as the threat, affect both the missile�s and radar�s performance.



�now for the really bad news.
The performance characteristics for the MIM-104 and AN/MPQ-53 are classified as well as proprietary Raytheon information. Unfortunately, the publications that describe buttons and menu entries are not supposed to be made to the public even though they are not clsssified. I think that this will hamper the ability to make a realistic sim for this weapons system.

A sim for this is not impossible because there is enough information to make a basic FPS "point and shoot" using just the buttons on the operators console.

When high speed high altitude target is going on you with "Parameter" less than 10 km, missiles should climb very fast and in "T/T" or "I-187" modes it is very difficult when the target is aproaching... You should launch 3 in a row, when SR-71 is about 80-90 km from you and you should got it between 35-40 km from you... Reading your post i think that you launch too early or too late..., and you see your missiles going down on the left indicator just before the target (you shot too early), or if they do the same, eeven when target is in range - means you shot too late....

Still, a lot of things can be done on current SAM's in the SIM. Just finish the Dvina and Shilka.... There is enormouse ground for fine tunning for SA-2 to SA-5....
I was thinking for history scenarios. Now we fight alone, even in scenarios, when we are in the sistem of entire PVO organization.... (in fact, only Serbian scenario is like "onne on one"). With incoming LIBIA '86 scenario and so, I start feeling that we will hear the sound of drumming pieces from our own equipment over our heads more often then my heart can take... Because running the Sim over inernet (with some kind of cooperative missions) with other fellow simmers is not an option, some kind of AI for my neighborh batteries could be a great help...

In 2008, when the Volhov SIM was finished, I seen several directions to continue the development...

- Public Mission Editor
- Multiplayer Over Internet
- Measured Complete System Initialization Procedure
- More Historic Scenarios (Libya, Syria, Suez Canal, Hanoi, Cuba, Sverdlovsk)
- Adding a new system, NEVA

... so that time, the voting choose the NEVA.


After the Dvina release, I will ask for the development direction again.

What about the SA-6 or the SA-8? If possible, would I really like to have the priveledge of operating the SA-6.
I apologize up front and please forgive me for sounding like the devil's advocate. I do not agree that a fully accurate sim can be made for this weapons system as of yet for the following reasons:

I fully agree with you.


All the systems above S-200 (SA-5) are still fielded, and operational.
(Except Nike Hercules and the SA-1)
All systems in the SIM are based on open source material.
(SA-6 is still fielded by the Hungarian Army, so I would wait, when it would be removed from service, and do the SIM as realistic as possible)


By the way, all the military flightsims around are based on open source material.

Simply the SAMs are not simulated, so everybody thinks that they are dumb guys.
If I would do a Defcon type of Patriot SIM, it would be STILL the BEST FREE Patriot SIM available.

This SIM is anyway not simulating pre-battle system initialization, just try to give you the look-and-feel of real historic battle from the SAM crew point of view.

But I think, voting should decide at the end.