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vintorez #3360241 08/06/11 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: vintorez
AFAIK, there was a little smile difference between Dvina's and Volkhov's optical systems. Volkhow employed a TV camera, while Dvina used... two pairs of eyes (occupators of the 'doghouse') probably supplemented by some simple optics (scopes, binoculars? - I wonder, in order to see a plane from 20 km away, one should need huge magnification... Hpasp, how was the real range of optical tracking in Dvina, assuming perfect weather conditions?)


They had a fixed TZK telescope, and two wheels, that were connected to the FCO's elevation/azimuth wheel.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

Kairo #3360243 08/06/11 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: Kairo


you know, some answers seems like illogic for me ..... because in the ground it have no sense !

then with deep observing ...... EUREKA !!! .....I found it ..... we are not using the same keyboard mapping,

I think you are using an QWERTY keyboard, and I'm using an AZERTY one!

with QWERTY keyboard it's right and logic.
with AZERTY one, your answers seems like illogic at all, and not efficient for tactical use mode,


Actually, we Hungarians has also a bit different keyboard layout QWERTZ, thus the Z/Y has common use.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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MK_PL #3360246 08/06/11 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
You want more questions? You sure? Brave man! smile

Here are some old ones:

In the Tallinn scenario, long after the SR-71 has crashed, it still can be seen on the Tall King radar screen.
A bug?


I checked it, and when the SR71 crashes, it disappears.
Could you be more specific? Screen-shots? ETC?

ps: I was able to angle track it at around 300km out (no range, no Nonius).
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
Kairo #3360247 08/06/11 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Kairo
I have a question not answered yet!, (you was in holidays!) about a maps in SAM sim
if it isn't "Secret Defence"!


Adding new maps were easy, until the Digital Elevation Mesh was introduced...
... now it is quite a complex process...
sigh


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
MK_PL #3360248 08/06/11 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Gentlemen, please have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1mu2k6M-es

Now you can laugh at me smile
Comments will be welcome.


Can I add it to the SAMSIM website?


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
Hpasp #3360265 08/06/11 10:40 AM
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I'll try to replicate the bug in the afternoon.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

I checked it, and when the SR71 crashes, it disappears.
Could you be more specific? Screen-shots? ETC?



Hpasp #3360267 08/06/11 10:44 AM
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Why not, if you think it can be useful. However, it is not 'perfect', it can only give sim users a general idea how to do it.

I was also recording a commentary but due to some problems with settings (I have two sound cards) it hasn't been recorded.
I will probably record another video when I have time.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Can I add it to the SAMSIM website?

MK_PL #3360276 08/06/11 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Hpasp, are you sure?
We'll keep asking... for time compression, 3D graphics, S-300... smile
Ok just kidding.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Just keep asking... thumbsup


Time compression will be in the next minor release.
3D graphic ... lets see.
S-300 ... not yet.

Ok just kidding.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
MK_PL #3360281 08/06/11 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Haven't checked if it's like that in the sim, but (from Wikipedia):

'Once the aircraft had dropped their bombs, they were to execute what SAC termed "post-target turns" (PTT) to the west. These turns had two unfortunate consequences for the bombers: the B-52s would be turning into a strong headwind, slowing their ground speed by 100 knots (185 km/h) and prolonging their stay in the target area and the PTT would point the emitter antennas of their EW systems away from the radars they were attempting to jam, degrading the effectiveness of the cells, as well as showing the largest radar cross-section to the missile guidance radars.'

On 19th December, if I'm not mistaken, they turn E.


PTT is performed by the B52 targets of the Hanoi scenario of the SIM.
The reason of the B52 kills were rather in the use of the T/T method, not related to the PTT.

The B52's were hit well before the PTT, not while performing it. (it is much easier to track a straight flying target, than a turning one)


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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MK_PL #3360282 08/06/11 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Why not, if you think it can be useful. However, it is not 'perfect', it can only give sim users a general idea how to do it.

I was also recording a commentary but due to some problems with settings (I have two sound cards) it hasn't been recorded.
I will probably record another video when I have time.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Can I add it to the SAMSIM website?


Any tutorial video is welcomed.
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
Hpasp #3360292 08/06/11 12:02 PM
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Thanks for taking out suggestions into account!
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

v922c is planned to be released within few weeks.
It will contain the Pause/2x/4x time compression, and some minor fixes.


Hpasp #3360295 08/06/11 12:07 PM
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Why am I not surprised? After all, you are the one who made the sim, so...
there probably are cheat codes, God Mode, Hpasp Mode, F117_with_landing_gear_down mode, etc.
smile

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

ps: I was able to angle track it at around 300km out (no range, no Nonius).
thumbsup

Last edited by MK_PL; 08/06/11 12:43 PM.
Hpasp #3360302 08/06/11 12:16 PM
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While trying to duplicate the 'radar bug' I might have found something else...
On the C screen.


Look carefully:

Here (upper right):

It might be a bug, appears to be dead.

Hpasp #3360316 08/06/11 12:41 PM
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I managed to replicate the 'radar bug'. Unfortunately.
In chronological order:






I waited for about 2 minutes after missile impact, but it was still visible (in various radar ranges).

Last edited by MK_PL; 08/06/11 12:55 PM.
Hpasp #3360350 08/06/11 01:46 PM
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Wait longer...

No seriously - it will take a long time for the debris to reach the ground from 25km up... especially if the hit is good and the target breaks up early on in/prior to the descent.

Lieste #3360356 08/06/11 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lieste
Wait longer...

No seriously - it will take a long time for the debris to reach the ground from 25km up... especially if the hit is good and the target breaks up early on in/prior to the descent.


is there any method to track elevations's crash with radar?


Sgt/C. Kairo
MK_PL #3360358 08/06/11 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
I managed to replicate the 'radar bug'. Unfortunately.
I waited for about 2 minutes after missile impact, but it was still visible (in various radar ranges).


Could you please insert "X" and "C" screens also?
(and check page 30 of the manual?)

All Doppler radars are sensitive for low tangential velocity.
1. When the target angular velocity drops, the �RAZRES FM� (Switch on FM) red warning light (2) will illuminate.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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Lieste #3360370 08/06/11 02:50 PM
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You may be right, but height is already low or zero on the 3rd screenshot. And the plane was hit four times.
And still I kept waiting after taking that screenshot.

Originally Posted By: Lieste
Wait longer...
No seriously - it will take a long time for the debris to reach the ground from 25km up... especially if the hit is good and the target breaks up early on in/prior to the descent.

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Originally Posted By: NaiseFail
Originally Posted By: Kairo
for NaiseFail:
I don't know if you have already see on the ground the real disposition of the panels,
if you work alone in one of this fire Cabin, you will see that you must pass along all panels to reach the ones you want!
you can't bypass panels in middle to jump directly to the ones you want, you must have in your mind the complete "Image"
of all panels and there dispositions in firing cabin, to be able to use it and to go to desired panel !, in reality you waste some times to reach panels.
and simply pressing ... a key, is not the real world! (it's my personal think!)


No offense, but your argument is invalid. Some things have to be abstracted and/or simplified simply because a computer simulation, no matter how realistic, can never function 100% like the real life system. The simpler solution to this would probably be for the SAM Sim installer to either ask for, or detect your keyboard layout and use a profile made for that type of keyboard.

No offense at all, and your argument still valid for your point of view, but maybe ours mains goal is different :

"Some things have to be abstracted and/or simplified simply because a computer simulation, no matter how realistic, can never function 100% like the real life system
I don't think this SIM Simulator is intended for this purpose, it will be as a "cheap game", then we have to play Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2 as well ...

Hpasp said in his site:
"The main goal during development was to simulate what the operators of the SAM battalion could see, and hear during engagement""

Originally Posted By: Kairo

the way to use the simulator (procedures), must be strictly the same as real machine or systems who we want to simulate, no wrap up will be made in this procedures or guidelines, no "cut" or simplify of procedures or guidelines are made in simulator, if it's done, it will be a "fake" simulator, and all the game's simulator are in the reality a "fake" simulator, - in all airplane simulator you never use all required switch and knobs to power on the engines, or to take off or even landing! -may be except MS Flight Simulator-


Don't worry for computers, they have no limits, "the only limit is our knowledge how to use it!"
if you expect a "simplified Game SAM Simulator", maybe it's the wrong place, I think we are more serious her!

"the main goal is to bring Users of "SAM Simulator", in to the real life of �Operators� and �Fire Cabin Officers� in Soviet�s SAM Batteries, and to relive in this fabulous world by virtue of "SAM Simulator - Realistic to the switch", and allow the Users to find themselves in the era of the Great Glories lived by these Soviet Sol-Air Missiles !" (from Preface of "the Complementary and Additive Information Manual")


Sgt/C. Kairo
Hpasp #3360396 08/06/11 03:40 PM
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Ok, I tried again, target still visible.








Screenshots No 2 and 5 were taken 3 and 4 minutes after the impact, respectively. I started taking them when the target height at the indicator was low or zero (pic 3). The target was still visible 4 minutes after the impact, it disappeared ca. 30 seconds later.
Maybe it's not a bug. Maybe it's system-specific.
I just wanted to let you know.

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