You are a touchy chap aren't you?

Ah well.

The information about the poor ballistics of the Mk108 are well known.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html

The MK 108 was put into service because the fight against Allied heavy bombers required a 30 mm cannon that was compact and light enough to be installed in single-engined fighters. The MK 108 used the APIB operating principle of the Oerlikon guns. It was less than half the weight and bulk of the MK 103, and much cheaper to produce, but it also had a much lower ballistic performance. Fighters could carry two or even four MK 108s. This gun had a heavy punch, but because it was a short-range weapon fighter pilots had to get close to their targets, normally opening fire at 300 m. Its use required strong nerves and better training than German pilots received during these last phases of the war. Some effort was made to increase the rate of fire, and a 850 rpm version was apparently perfected, although too late to be adopted.

As for the Mk108 against fighters :
http://www.bf109.com/twgunsarticle.html

Some K series were built with the MK 108 instead (and some G-series were retrofitted with it as the U4 modification) in order to achieve greater destructive power against bombers, but the low muzzle velocity made it difficult to hit fighters with this gun.

As far as I am concerned, E. Gustin and Tony Williams seem most competent guys when it comes to WW2 guns...

I also hope that the NS-37 will have a proper recoil. Something tells me that it is very mild, too mild, in the beta08...

I'll grant you these 30mm weapons did not have good ballistics, NNTym. Nobody's arguing that point. But, read that paragraph again: nobody is talking about scoring with long range shots, either.

When you DO get in close and the weapon STILL misses (which it does with *alarming* frequency in IL-2 and FB 1.0)...that's what we are talking about.

I'm not looking for a can't miss wonder weapon. I know that when I take the 30mm "whuppin' stick" I'm taking added nose weight, decreased maneuverability and a very short clip. The tradeoff is that I should only need one or two hits to get the job done. That's a fair tradeoff. But I don't want to have to fire half the magazine at d 0.25 and zero deflection to get that one hit.

The ballistics were such that deflection shots and medium to long range shots are dicey. I'm fine with that. But the weapon wasn't so bad that you couldn't hit with it at point blank range half the time.

Well there you go NN Tym, I fire all my canons MG151/15, MG151/20 and Mk108 from 0 to 100m max.
Since all 109s don't have a lot of canon ammo from my perspective it doesn't make sense to do long-range engagements with enemy fighters. Like I said before 'poor fighter weapon' is a relative term.

Peter

Absolutely Stiglr.

Everyone dreaming of a MK108 hitting nothing at around 150m! or less - as it was since IL-2 V.1.0 - (until we started this patch cicle) should go ahead and dream along!

It never was a sniper rifle - nor does anyone wants this, but at least it shouldn't come off the barrel in a "role & dice" pattern
Just to put that strait.

Regards

150 is short range, not point blank, not the distance described by Hartmann anyway... At such a distance the target fills the gunsight, not the windscreen...

When the Normandie pilots fought alongside the Russians, they were considered very good shots. When asked how they could hit that easily, they said they routinely fired at 150 m or under. This was common distance to hit with weapons in the nose for them.

Pilots of the Luftwaffe was ordered to start firing on B17 at 300m with the Mk108. Given the rapid closure and the size of the target, this puts the 150 m on a fighter way off.

I have set my convergence at 200m for both my guns in a Yak. The Russians guns have a much better velocity than the Mk108 and this is the minimal distance to achieve a hit on a defending target.

If you DREAM of a Mk108 that will hit consistently a fighter jixing at 150m then, you can dream of anything, and talk about laser guns.

Once again, you are putting words in our mouths.

Who's talking about hitting a jinking fighter at 150 meters? I'm talking about converting a shot of a non-maneuvering Sturmo at that range... and closer.... and having that gun miss as often as it hits. It's the total inconsistency that we're discussing here.

At any rate, these problems are being reported as fixed, so now I suppose you can begin posting about how the weapon should be as accurate as a single shotgun pellet at all ranges. Feel free.

NN Tym,

please RELAX!

I don't know about what and what not those French guys shoot and hit during the war.

But I do know, thats that whats coming off the nose of a firing MK 108 in FB. v1.0 is just "Final Fantasy"! Go into zoom view and watch the trajetory(sp)of the bullet.

Oleg Maddox and laser swords?
Certainly not!

by the way.
We send more then one document of german weapons and their figures to Oleg.
Result is the next patch. 08 isn't final code.

But it ain't uber - like it or not.

A cannon grenade of that size didn't fly like 20mm high velocity bullets. Sure! Especially if the barrel is as short as the one of the MK108. But the Luftwaffe never! had weapons uncapable to hit a target at 50m! as it happens to be in the currend release.

In fact evaluating the MK108 balistic properties and dispersion is not an easy task.
First there were several revision of the M-Geschoss shell, the C version being much more precise but suffering from some percussion trouble, the shell not exploding under certain condition (speed, angle of impact).
Dispersion contrary to ballistic is made worse by long barrel, which are more suceptible to vibration than short barrel. But longer barrel provide more rotational speed and higher muzzle velocity hence better balistics. Ballistic being considered here as the vertical trajectory of the shell.
Hence a short barrel provide bad ballistics, and as such reduce the useful range, but in the other hand the precision is enhanced as barrel vibration are not as bad as in longer weapons.

I think this drawing will enlight you :

read the mention at the bottom carefully.