I've always had a hard time taking any Christian Hardcore/Metal/whatever bands seriously.
If your singer is growling in a microphone so bad it sounds as tho the lining of his intestine is about to regurgitate itself through his mouth, I hardly expect him to be singing about the posistive power of Jesus. There's a certain incongruence there I can't get my head round.

However stranger things happen. I always used to find it funny that early Carcass stuff was saturated with imagery of autopsies, dead bodies, wounds, rotting flesh, etc, both in the lyrics and the LP sleeves, yet all three of em were strict Vegans. Wonders never cease.

"Let's say that Rock 'n Roll IS the Devil's music ......... at least he F*CKING ROCKS!"

- Bill Hicks

Any time you try to squeeze art through some kind of ideological production, it suffers. For something as street-level as R&R, it suffers a lot. No one will ever remember any of the stuff that comes out of so called Christian Pop studios. Meanwhile, there are plenty of Christians who share their spiritual beliefs through their music who have come out of indifferent studios and we will remember their music.

What is worse is that frequently the musicians that are farmed into these closed studios are otherwise indifferent musicians. If anything is to be said for Christian R&R, at least drugs are not a problem. At least we won't see losses like SRV and the rest. On the hand, who cares?

Not particularly into godrock myself, but I have to say that Kings X were (are?) one of theeeee best bands I ever bought/saw live in the 90's. Now that's how to sing about your belief without preaching!

Yes, Kings X is a wonderful band. I always liked Pinnick's bass work on that 12 string bass of his. Filled out the sound while Ty Tabor was soloing.

As for the statement that: "Any time you try to squeeze art through some kind of ideological production, it suffers."

First of all, Christianity is a faith, not an ideology. It is a belief which results in a paradigm, it is not a rigid intellectualized ideology like atheist or humanism or marxism. That said, if you really believe that statement then you must hate J.S. Bach with a passion, after all, he signed every single work he ever wrote with 'soli deo gloria' (to God alone be the glory) instead of his own name.

Christianity has brought us some of the most magnificent music of all time, from 12th century madrigals and gregorian chant of the 14th century to bach, to Handel's Messiah, to, dare I say it, Petra.

Are there cliches in 'christian' music, absolutely. But, part of that comes in the definition thereof. Christian bassist Rick Cua once told bass player magazine "If you sing what's in your heart, and you're a Christian, its a Christian song". Every christian musician I have met, and I have met a lot from a wide variety of styles singing and playing across Canada and Europe, has been honest in the manner they approach their faith and their art. Sure, there is still bad art, but their expressions of faith in their art are not some ideological additive, they come from their very sense of self. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to understand that, since you do not experience faith in the same way that they do.

Music, for Christians, is far more serious an endevour than in the rest of the world. Sure, people love music, but Christians really, really, explore all facets of that.


btw: I too liked mortal, though their last album 'wake' sucked in my opinion. Fathom kicked serious ass though. A style like no other.

I went diving through my boxes of old tapes for Fathom... no joy. Maybe I'll look on Kazaa, after all I did buy it.

Right now I have mix of Deliverance, Saviour Machine, Die Happy and (yes one song) mortal.

This thread has inspired me to go put on some of my old stuff. Next on will be 'Snakes in the Playground' by Bride, then I am going to put on some Kings X and I am going to top it off with the Extremely Loud Guitar Tape (yes, that's the name of the Album, which came with the sheet music in a book). ELGT has the best stuff around, everyone from Believer to X-Sinner its an A to Z (ok B-X) of the best hard Christian music ever.

Oh no, dont try to redefine the meaning behind christian rock. It is not applied soley to musicians who are christian. Elvis was christian, but he didnt play christian rock. You know very damn well what people mean when they say christian rock, and you may not agree with the distinction but it doesnt need your agreement for it to exist.

Chistian rock is nothing more than people using their personal religous beliefs as a marketing ploy to reach a niche audience. Lets get rich off god, a time honored tradition inside the church and out. Chistian rock is made by those who feel the need to display their religous beliefs right on the album cover. This niche audience wants to be able to lower themselves to enjoying the same types of entertainment as everyone else without really going all the way. Uniquely though, christian rock bands have to always stay the same, because they dont believe in evolving.

Christian rock makes as much sense as non-alcoholic beer, decaf coffee and tits on a bull. The difference being there are good medical reasons for the first two.

>Chistian rock is nothing more than people using
>their personal religous beliefs as a marketing
>ploy to reach a niche audience.

Yes, it makes great business sense to forgo a mass market, which catering to would open up the potential to make untold millions for a niche market which at best might, if you are very successful, be able to one day upgrade your touring 'van' for an old bus. Hell, if you are really successful you might even be able to buy a house for your family.

I've met a lot of these guys, they aren't in it for the money, and if you think they are you are nuts. Those who are go mainstream, like Amy Grant did (oh how wonderful that was, she made millions then imploded).

The guys in Petra barely make enough off of a concert to cover their costs (I know how much it costs to bring them in, my best friend did just that). They make peanuts off record sales (something like 2$ for each sale, split 5 ways, which makes for next to nothing when you consider a record is amazingly successful beyond all imagination if it goes Gold) I can count on one hand the number of Christian artists who have had albums go gold.

They simply do not do it for the money. If they did, they'd go into the secular market, where cash advances are plentiful, royalties are higher and the sales volume is far greater.

Not WCE, just proving a point.

Lets assume that this group's rolls have continued to grow, and their membership is now 1.5 million. And since The Christian Coalition styles itself as the best group for American Christians wanting to go into politics, we'll assume that all or nearly all of their members listens to "Christian Rock". So that means whoever puts out a Christian "album" has at least one million sales right then and there.

As long as such groups exist, there will be an incredible and all-too-willing audience within their membership who will snap up anything put out on this "genre".

But as far as I'm concerned, I do not like it, Sam-I-Am...I do not like green Christian Rock and ham...

Goodwood,

FYI most of the Christian Rock I listen to scares the "average" Christian, and I have experienced more predjudice against it from "fellow" Christians than from non-Christians. I doubt sincerely if the average Christian Coalition member listens to Living Sacrifice, Savior Machine, or Zao. We used to call it Christian Music to Scare Your Parents With!

>So that means whoever puts out a
>Christian "album" has at least one million
>sales right then and there.

Except it never happens.

You have to be an exceptional artist to get a record to go gold, and I have never heard of a Christian record going platinum. As far as I know its never happened, and certainly not to deliverance or living sacrifice.