Hey guys...

About the new 104s(J and ROCAF G) skins...its complete in painting but i am having trouble getting the white wings to show prominently contrasting to the silver fuselage. That's causing all the delay.

Do you think i should issue a large decal for the entire wing upper surface instead or is there a way to individually change the reflection, glosiness values for each mesh?

Nosecone:

Try the decal, am having the same issue, since I had not heard from you in a few days, I did these skins yesterday, but while testing I had my first ever lock up in Single Player (usually only in MP ), and had not saved the last few renderings in PaintShop. Only have the finished .bmps. Here are the results.

this one has been scrapped...



This one is from the Squadron 'In Action' p.36







Another variant on the color scheme.



The wings above are painted white, but I think I might need to add another layer, to bring out the white in the wing, the rivets an panel lines are too dark. When I do this I will post another shot.
I still haven't figured out the 'white wing thing' either. The tail and aircradt numbers ar new decals, the Insignia are stock. I have the latest two-toned grey scheme planned, and of course when we get an 'A' model the Natural metal skins also.

Crab_02

[This message has been edited by Crab_02 (edited 12-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Crab_02 (edited 12-26-2002).]

will post again shortly

see this link b4 ?
http://members19.cool.ne.jp/~skywarrior/rocaf%2011ag.htm

Nice link, got anything a bit older though, to fit the time frame of the game?

An my '4522' is on that site, so I can refine it, think it was from 1992.

I like the skins with the rudder stripes better anyway.

[This message has been edited by Crab_02 (edited 12-26-2002).]

Hi

sorry to ask, but I'm really novice at this

what do you exactly mean by new decals for the wings??

I'm also repainting a starfighter with white wings, and of course I got the same problem that you have, it glitters like the metal finish of the fuselage

to correct a bit, i sparayed a yellower colour (255-255-41) but tough it's better, it's far from perfect..





[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-26-2002).]

Crab_02..our 104 looks remarkably similar except mine doesn't have any serial or squad decals YET.

As for the ROCAF birds...apart from my zero knowledge of its serial number system and the white wing effect another snag is the red and white nose probe which can't be easily painted. I think its that circle with the cross you find in the F-104_2 bitmap.

Sony & Crab

Unless we can find a way to independently adjust the reflectiveness of the individual upper wing meshs(come on ask Dan or Jamie) the only real way we could solve this problem is by using a huge white decal complete with panel lines.
This is not impossible but is very tricky. Care to try ?

As you can see ROCAF F-104G is borrowing the wing from my 104J.

Here are some screenshots.






btw do you know what 104Js carry other than the Sidewinder 9B/J, AAM-1 and wing tanks ?
Never seen any strike ordnance of the sort.

ROCAF starfighters i have seen with M117, Zunis, Mk82.etc

Belgian Starfighters are something new for me too. Hope to see more of them.


[This message has been edited by nosecone (edited 12-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by nosecone (edited 12-26-2002).]

OKi

being belgian and in the Air Force, I know a lot about belgian 104

I'd like to give a try to your decal solution.

Could you explain me, i know nothing about this way to proceed

sorry to ask, but I would appreciate understanding to finish this project before going on with the camouflages version (viet nam style, 2 green, 1 brown, grey underside)

here is another shot of my work



[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-26-2002).]

Crab, lighten the rivets by adjusting the brightness and contrast of the layer. If you do it, remember the values you used from the begining, changes are cumulative, and not recorded on an absolute scale.

Nosecone, I just noticed your mssg at Biohaz saying you emailed me. Can't find the email tho.

Klaatu

its OK...i figured out the solution to the painting/melting while experimenting.
thx for telling me about the message

Sony

I am not sure of your question...are you asking how to make decals or manipulate the decal system ?

Hang on..i will find the the link to the excellent decal making tutorial.

Also suggest you download TK's decal placement tutorial.

Here is the decal making tutorial thread.
Hope you find it useful Sony


http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/Forum55/HTML/002812.html

thanks

i think I need help on all decals operations

up to now, the only thing I did was using photoshop templates and repainting the skin layers to get new camouflage.

I just adapted the decals.ini file to remove markings not needed...

but here they speak about a decal covering the whole wing, how???

I think a decal is possible, but I agree with Nosecone - it will be difficult. I have has success with a rudder decal for a J-6/MiG-19, only took about an hour of resizing and moving it around using the decal.ini.
Both the JASDF & Belgian skins are looking very good.
Nosecone, I thought you had some serials made up already, from a previous post?

Sony, did you paint paint your serials on or use a decal? I have found a good color pic of 'FX 26' in natural metal from 1964, a color drawing of 'FX 1' and a side & top view of the camo scheme for reference.

Am thinking about doing a couple Spanish AF skins, one in Anti-corrision grey, and a natural metal skin form Escadron 104.
We might want to combine efforts, in order to speed things up a bit, and add several more skins for download - let me know what you both think....

These RoCAF birds are overall light grey, with better shots of the wings.

always willing to share

Please let me see your pics

email : sony.tuckson@skynet.be)

I painted the serials since I don't know about decals at this time

will read tutorials tomorrow

I'm glad to participate

do you have a decals.ini file to show me (with added decals of course)

[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-26-2002).]

Sony Tuckson

If you are looking for a good example please download my A-4G decal set. It is a custom made Australian Navy Skyhawks. The file size is small and there are many examples.
http://www.biohazcentral.com/modules.php...download&sid=14
Also don't forget to download Skypat's extractor which can also be found in this and other sites.
For the artwork stuff helpful programs are MS Paint(for quick touch-ups) and a advance graphics editor like Adobe Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro(which i and Crab-02 are using). The last 2 can handle alpha channels.

So you can repaint your Belgium National markings too.
-----------
Crab_02

Yes i agree we should all combine efforts since we will all benefit from sharing components of this project.

Did i mention about serial decals ?If i did i can't seem to find them in my HD.

btw the white wing effect above was taken at favourable angles...otherwise they look similar to the fuselage.

I spent an entire day's timeframe to paint the wings white so to make the decals i suggest we try modify produce the super decals from the painted wing bitmaps.

Sony & crab

So how about if i send you my set of painted white wings and you all try to "adapt" it to become a large decal ? I think the national markings can still working by just overlapping each other....crab has done this b4.

what do you think ?

I thought you had posted a few shots of your 'J' model with numbers awhile back.
Am having no luck with the wing decals, I have made a set at 256 x 256 but they will not show up - maybe we should try something along the lines of the F4_SQTAILL008.tga, with a 'faded' or translucent effect???
I will contunue to paint the white on the wings, at least it will work on the Grey schemes, where it is not as specular....
I can send you the 3 serial sets & decal.ini for the RoCAF when you are ready.
Sony, if you want I can try to make up a set of serials for your skin also and you can use/mod them as needed...

Have been doing some experimentation with the decals. Results inconclusive

Perhaps there are better ways to make the white more transculent but this is what turned up. Don't worry about the national marking though..they can be "adjusted".
From what seen in pics the lines/rivets show prominently even on white wings.




This set with the solid white instead.



I will try see whether there is a way to adjust the wing's specular independently before attempting to draw the lines/rivets.

Interesting, what size decal did you use?
Mine would simply not show up.

Trying to make a shark mouth for a VF-111 F-4B.......

Will post some more pics.

Actually for this experiment the decal was sized at only 128x128...a square with white allover.

But in the .ini file i made the scale 20 for the benefit of the experiment.

Now to figure how to add the lines.

Crab_02

The F-104J serial number you saw awhile ago was not the real stuff. It had the orange flightsuited pilot as well.

It was actually a stock silver 104 with klaatu's MFG2 starfighter decal.

and roger.
Maybe paint the lines on the skin a dark color, so they will show through the decal?

Am enjoying this shark mouth decal on the F-4!!!
It is a real bear to get the contour correct.

Crab_02

Show that F-4 VF-111 Sundowner someday will ya ?

You must have seen Jamie Richard's explanation on another thread confirming that we can't independently tune the 3 values. Bummer....

So try darkening the rivet lines using the PSP template...but i still feel the best result is by making a huge decal...i will try my very best rest assure.

I am sure all three of us want to have white wing natural metal F-104s despite the option to paint light grey or european camo.

So try it.

thanks guys

will follow your advices of course

coming from C6, I already use the extractor

PSP is also my favourite tool

I'll send a better view of my "white wings" to let you judge..

here are two pics...





can't zoom as close as you seem to be able


please comment the work, it's productive, I want this skin as nice as can be

I've dl your australian navy work
I'm still studying the procedure for decals...

ypu speak about a number.lst file, should I extract it? and then modify and save in the ran1970 folder?

sorry to be so dumb, I'm old and things get through slowly

[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-27-2002).]

sony

You don't have to extract anything. The number.lst can be found in the copied folder.
I did mention copying USNgrey1 folder and rename it didn't i ?

Look inside this new folder and change the contents.

Anyway worth the training with decals

zoom key is the numeric keypad "+" key or left mouse button

[This message has been edited by nosecone (edited 12-27-2002).]

I don't have this number.lst file

oki for zoom, on the shots, I'm at maximum allowed, and I tought you were "closer"

Does anybody know where is the file for the external tanks textures? (for the 104 I mean)

here is a view of the work of a friend of mine (the rest can be seen on http://www.checksix-fr.com look for "album photo"





[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-27-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-27-2002).]

Sony, extract the wing tanks form the objects/objects.cat file, repaint and place in the objects folder.
It takes as little trial and error to get camo to line up on the tank, and one can not change the specular/glossiness of the tanks, outside what Nosecone and Mr. Richards have discussed elsewhere on this fourm.

thanks sony for posting my work

i need to finish it before release it
the exaust fuselage and some other details need to be corriged before
if you have some suggestion for me...

Fuch

That's a beautiful Belgian camo 104! Nice work.

Sony
the numbers.LST allows you to change the pull down list for airframe numbers in the aircraft selection menu. Every aircraft scheme folder has one. Try take a closer look. You can open this with a notepad.

Its all there.

oki
Nosecone, I will take a sharper look

still didn't find the texture for the external tanks...

look in the objects.cat file:

Droptank_f-104.bmp

there is only one, look at my 2 top views and see how I changed the fuel cap locations, but this only looks good with wing tip tanks, the underwing tanks hang differently, the stock 'tank.bmp' is for both types.

thanks for your patience, I have it this time...

and that numbers.lst as well

gee , I'm progressing

I'm know trying to exploit your data to provide any possible number to my 104's, as well as Wing paches (planes wre alloted to wings, not individual squadrons back in the belgin starfighters days..)

OK crab_02 and Sony Tuckson

I regret to say that my test with that super decal was not a success, because the glosiness, reflectiveness and specular values apply on the decals as well!!!If you(Crab_02) notice even the whites on the national insignia are more to the grey side.

Check this screenshot out.
Take note that the wing on the right has been painted white but without any decals. The one of the left has the experimental decal on it complete with rivet lines.


So in other words there is little point in doing this. I'm sorry but that's the way it is.

----------------
How bout this...lets use the template and try paint different hues of white...maybe more to the yellowish/brownish side to try achieve the effect.

The decal idea is scrap for now.

oki

working hand in hand with Fuchs, he found a rather conclusive "white"

I'll post screenshots latter this day

just a question (yeah, one more...)

I created unit decals (SQTaillxxx and SQTailRxxx) should those be stored in the folder where the camo is? I modified the listing of units, and edited the decals.ini, but they don't show (up to now..)

new decals go into the objects/aircraft folder.
As long as the edited Squadron.list is numbered properly it should work.
I have several squadron badges and units, and added a few new nations to the nation.ini

thanks

will checks all ini files and location

if my new unit is edited like this

[Squadron014]
Name=BE1W
DisplayName=1st All Weather Fighter Wing
Nation=Belgium

(no gap in squadron numbers..)

then my decals should be SqTailR014.tga and SqTailL014.tga, correct?

Is there any size restriction? or standard size to apply? to the decal file I mean

[Squadron014]
Name=309TFS
DisplayName=309th TFS
Nation=USAF

is SQPATCH014.tga

[Squadron016]
Name=1_4030
DisplayName=1 Skuadrilja, Regt 4030
Nation=Albania

is SQPATCH016.tga

SqTailR014.tga and SqTailL014.tga would mean that you decal.ini would have to match - am not sure how the SqTail markings work.

the method above works for me, or you can make a new texture folder, name the .tga s how you wish , edit the .ini and they should work.

[This message has been edited by Crab_02 (edited 12-29-2002).]

thanks, I will try with your parameters (adapted to my needs of course)

Sony Tuckson

Great!
I hope to see your new white wings soon. Post eemm ASAP

btw you ask for comments on your 104 in the last picture post...they look pretty solid!
Although the national markings on the wings have a strange blue outline...but the ones on the fuselage are correct. Did you paint them on or use the decal ?

Crab_02

Can you mail me some suitable serial numbers for the silver ROCAF F-104G ?Like to try eem out. My add is
blueoasis_asia at yahoo dot com

here are the wings, as "whiter" by Fuchs, also author of the camouflaged version..

the roundels for the belgian air force have a blue outline.

the ones on the wings are painted

the ones on the intake are decals as provided in the game (thus incorrect, no blue outline)

I used the ones from the games because of the complexity of positionning (they are cut , not in one piece on the texture...)

i modified the insignia15.tga file, but cannot get the modified version appear in the game

oups, I forgot the screenies...





[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-29-2002).]

Nice skin!
Sony...
May i suggest you try a little experiment maybe just 1 final one... ?
You repainted the tail end(covering the afterburner) of your 104 didn't you ?That color looks quite whittish as well...
is that more yellowish ?

Good try for the wings though

sorry to dissapoint you

i didn't touch that part..

altough we should since the middle panel of the vertical stabilizer is much darker
but mettalic colours ain't easy...

btw

anyone in here who knows which part of the textures covers the starfighter wingtip missile rails?

not clearly sorted out, and they need painting

[This message has been edited by Sony Tuckson (edited 12-30-2002).]

crab_02

Thanks for sending me the decal.ini but i have not received the decals yet...

btw you are quite welcome but really its your own initiative and talent rather than my guidance. Don't give me too much credit
--------------

I have been doing the 104J these few days slowly. Now painting up a new pilot. No luck on the white wings though..decals are affected by the 3 magic values too.

Does anyone know why the wings of natural metal 104s painted in white ?

To pi$$ us off, cause us many a sleepless night... (white wings)

Will re-send the decals, do not know what happened....

Crab_02

Roger got the good stuff this time.

btw
Happy new year !

they were painted white due to overheating problems blocking flaps

they first didn't know how to solve this and painting wings white helped dissipate heat

latter more technical tricks were found (but I don't remember exactly what)