homepage Forums Read Only Forums Read Only Forums Red Baron (Read Only) So, what will become of Red Baron 3D?

I have been thinking lately about this great sim and how it really needs to be resurrected by Sierra or who ever owns it these days. Are they going to let it languish forever?

Wouldn't RB3D be a great foundation to build a modern WW1 sim on? Wouldn't it be better than starting from scratch? Would it be possible to build on the existing Campaign bringing the graphics up to date, increasing the detail and maybe adding things like troop movements, 3D trenches more planes and weather?

I don't really understand why Sierra is just sitting on the sim. Why don't they start upgrading the game and release at least some add ons like IL2 does? If they don't think there is a market for a new upgraded RB3D why don't they sell it? What are they going to do, wait until the 100th anniversary of the great war before doing something with this sim?

A few of us have said to Shockwave, who have got the rights to Rowan's BoB and MPS's B17 to do just this kind of makeover, that they should do the same for RB3d. The response has been some interest but nothing firm. There has to be some real commercial potential in adding a newer graphics engine to the sim with an unbeatable campaign engine. Hopefully Schockwave will do well with their present plans and they or someone will turn to RB3d.

Personally, thanks fo HASP, FCJ and WFP, and its excellent basic qualities, I still rate RB3d as the best propsim playable now and don't see that changing soon given that improvements tend to concentrate on graphics and do little in the departments where RB still shines. The new Dawn Patrol expansion for CFS3 looks like being really excellent but CFS3's campaign system, assuming it can be adapted well to WW1, is still strictly middling, so i'l still be playing RB as well as CFS3-WW1.

I must admit i was so disappointed in CFS3 that i gave my copy away and have never gone back, i have never even checked it out at with any of the current addons such as firepower etc. I played it out of the box, hated it and gave it away, lol. Pity cos i love CFS1 and 2.

the biggest issues I see with a new WWI sim are...

1. Lack of interest... outside the RB community. Let's put it this way...little Johnny with his Xbox wants to fly Spiderman, not a Fokker Dr.1. Most households have console systems, not PC for gaming. Proof is the pathetic let down of a beautiful sim called Wings of War. Even if there is a plan, folks love the muscle and power of WW2 warbirds over the grace and paitence of canvas and wood.

2. Lack of knowledge. This is a huge issue. WWI in the sky was a lot bigger than we have seen. WFP gives a taste as to the level of detail needed. Over 100 planes at least to make it somewhat real. Other than that, they'll get stuck in a year or two of limited allocations and call it historic. We know that's not what we want again. Let's say... 'Airwar 1918', or 'WWI:1917', and that's all you'll see. WWI is huge, a lot bigger than WW2. Bold statement, I know, but technology grew so fast in that time period that is was status quo to remove planes after only 3 months service.

3. Poor support. Unfortunately for us, no-one outside our community, let alone in others, really knows anything about the history and beauty of WWI avaiation. Ask a WW2 simmer... name 2 pilots from WWI... Richthofen and Rickenbacker. Done. That's a huge problem. But like most have found out flying our patches... MAN! WWI was amazing!!

There are other reasons, but I believe these to be the main core of the issue.

I'm not being un-optomistic, if not pessimistic, but I do hope there will be a new WWI sim with today's technology that offer realism as well as historically accurate information.

Brgds!

OvS

Good points here, but there are traces of what we in the flight sim hobby must be careful of.
What I mean is that we get too focused on some small area and demand that it is reproduced to the fullest degree, or the sim isn't authentic enough.!
OVS makes a good point in his para #1. He falls into the trap in para#2. If we want a new WW 1 sim we cannot demand of the dev that he produces at least 100 planes Or all theatres at once, etc !
Come on, we are asking other simmers to join us in WW1, so that the hobby grows;we should make sure that it is a sim which will attract them, not the Simon Sharmas of WW1. It is maybe something you would like OvS, but that's all it is - it isn't necessary for a good sim.
Dev's costs are of paramount importance.I suspect that is why KOE didn't get taken up, and why the potential of WOW wasn't fulfilled.
To make a WW1 sim of the depth of RB with new graphics terrains etc would probably be prohibitive from scratch- But a makeover is more than possible and viable, IMHO.
Shockwave are doing it with BOB and B17, a market, ( WW11, that is), frankly, over populated with sims. In my view, the canvas and wood era would be a bigger selling place.
It would be a better place for devs and the flight sim genre, for an important reason, not too often spoken of.
How many got to grips with flight sims by diving in with Falcon 4 or other sims with a steep learning curve.? I suppose a lot dipped into them but soon gave up. Fortunately for me i started with FCG and so it wasn't too hard to "crack it" , and the rest is history, as they say.
WW1 sims are easy to learn and will retain their buyers better- Something the market boys should consider!.
So, Come on Shockwave, go to work on RB3d, get trackir involved fully for up to date realism.
The 100 planes, areas and specialist interests can be offered as later add ons, so that the sim builds in modules. It will work BUT only if the basic, makeover, first effort is truly outstanding in terrain, FMs, AI.
And you do have your work cut out to make the latter two better than RB3d's present ones.
A wonderful sim which could be made glorious!

I know, so to appese the public, it would be

20 planes - flyable. The usual culprits. Ho-hum. Wake me when it gets good. Kind like Wings of War.

Personally, I was REFERENCING WFP, not suggesting it should be exactly like it. There should definately be more history involved, with more aces, and more depth. If it can be done in IL2:FB, and PF, why not in a new WWI flight sim. The reason that makes RB such a winner, and always will is the level of depth it tosses you in (once patched). You're a target low on the deck, and high in the clouds.

But as we have seen with so many previous WWI games... let's see... Wings of Glory, Wings, Kinghts of the Sky, Red Baron I, The Ancient Art Of War in the Skies (terrible), Dawn Patrol (the series) and Blue Max, it's always the same thing, same planes. Hence the boredom factor.

What if a sim came out with flyable 2-seaters, that you can ride in the MG position. I just finished Call of Duty: United Offensive and they had just that. You flew IN a B-17 as the gunner, running back and forth between the gunner positions. It was awesome!

Also, why not the Sieman's Shukerts (bad spelling, I know), and Aviatik Bergs. Why not all the other planes that have NEVER been seen in a sim, other than us modding them to add them in. It's what would mnke the game sellable. Even to a novice, to experiance WWI in a modern sim, you need the Pfalz E.I AND the Fokker E.I, you need to feel the difference between a 150HP Spad VII and the 180HP versions.

Todays gamers (simmers) demand more, not less. Look at all the modders out there that boost every game into a new version. Why not make something that is already complete? Honestly, we got lucky with RB3D as it was left wide open to mod without too much tinkering. You can't go back to the 'old style' and expect good reception from the public. The 'old style' was a small game, not much detail and based on graphics. it's time for something new and vast.

I'm on track. I've done the mod, I've asked the questions, and I know what people want. They're sick of the 'almost' sims when it comes to WWI, they want more. Even HASP doesn't do enough. I wanted to add 10 more planes, but it was just too difficult for my low-level programming skills. But if I could have, I would have.

So WFP is a model for the next WWI sim. Any company that doesn't see that is nuts, and again looking for the fast buck. I paid my $20 for the eye-candy of WOW, and now it's far from wow, it's deleted and shelved.

OvS

No wonder flight sim's devs don't want to make sims.
How are we going to attract more into this hobby, when you think sims makers need to consider such sentiments a priority?

I too have recognized that WOW's potential has not been realized and now I do not fly it. I fly RB3d more than any other sim I have, because of its depth, yes, but more because of its FMs, AI, and easy- to- get- into-and-fly game play.
You do not need to be a flight sim expert to fly, fight (and survive). And so I quickly come to handle it , then enjoy it.
And from such a base, a newbie, having some success in simple missions where he really can pretend he is "flying" WW1 planes, will then go on to explore the sim.
But before he can explore the sim, he needs to be caught by it and "hooked"- That's what the realistic graphics, sounds, FM, DM gameplay, etc does. If he doesn't get hooked by this then it won't make a jot of difference that this plane or that plane is missing, or the engine is the wrong size!, or ultra specialist stuff like that.
That can come in add ons offered, as his interest grows. And he will foster that interest in the direction he wants to go, not the direction you want him to go.
I imagine i have as much interest as you in flight sims,( though you do more for the community than I do), but our emphases are different. I couldn't care much if a particular plane is not available for me to fly in a particular era - you do. Fine.
But don't make the mistake of thinking that it is important for everyone to have that belief. And unless they do, the sim won't succeed.

I think that the depth of RB3d is more than enough. If it was re-vamped in modern sim capabilities , it would be a best seller- no doubt.
And in closing, I really do think that the terrain, particularly no-mans-land in RB (Promised Land ) is better than WOWs terrain.

cheers

CFS3-WW1 has a very serious prospect of becoming a sim that wil rival RB3d. CFS3 supports flying as gunner and bombing. OK its campaign system is poor compared to RB3d's (aren't most?) and there will probably be some limitations eg I doubt balloons will be winched down under attack.

But it's open architecture will mean that it will take off rapidly. Many new planes are liable to be built for it. Single missions and campaigns of single missions are certainly possible, as will be "dynamic" campaigns using the CFS3 system. You want authentic FMs reflecting the diff between a 150hp and a 180HP Hispano-suiza? Well, look at the work of the 1% team with WW2 planes, they have a Swordfish flying and reckon the AI will cope fine with their FMs for WW1 planes.

Sure it won't have some of the stuff that makes RB3d great but it will doubtless have some good features of its own like flyable and gun-able 2-seaters. And outstanding graphics of both planes and environment.

I don't see me giving up RB3d but the new "Dawn Patrol" will be the next best thing, and a top notch "new" WW1 sim. Thanks to the efforts of Winding Man, Davo and the others who are there now or will contribute once this gets airborne in the next few months.

Comical that you guys post this, when the tiny WOW community is trying everthing we can by hook or crook to recruit some bright minds into helping us tweak WOW.

RB3D is on its last legs visually speaking, and all WOW needs is some of you GURUS to pitch in and lend a hand and make it what we are all looking for. Yeah, the campaign engine might not be a easy conversion, but if we can find a few more of you script experts we can without a doubt have custom missions, and therefore user made campaigns. Why beat a dead horse like RB3D( I love it but its true ) when WOW has a lot of possibility and the cutting edge graphics all us WWI sim fans want?

You want Siemens Schuckerts? You want Sopwith Dolphins? You want to fly an Aviatik? You can in WOW. Where the hell are you guys?

Red Baron 3d isnt on its last legs, many have been saying that for years, its the sim that refuses to die.

The modding has no end in sight, one of the latest patches released last week has all new ways to elevate terrain, aka the Alps patch.

I can understand why WoW needs\wants modders, but the arcade feel to it may never go away. Sure Rb3d is arcade in some respects also, but gun upgrades? :rolleyes:

With the game selling as an arcade shooter with pretty grahpics, its likely many simmers will not even bother to look into the modding potential.

The WoW community will grow however, Im about to start flying it come x-mas. All I need is a DVD-Rom, but I know when I do start playing WoW I won't soon shelve RB away.

Once mods like a possible mission editor, talked about often on the WoW boards or new planes to replace the A-10 and F-22 slots are offered, I think too many will be drawn to other sims for greater immersion.

Hopefully WoW will get greater support in the months ahead.

I agree that RB is by no means dead. The SP campaign is far and above superior to any other. One has the unmistakable impression there are air operations all along the front whether one is there to see them or nor. Exit upon being killed and fly the same mission repeatedly and it's different each time. I've never seen that anywhere else. And that's just SP.

MMP has plenty going on if you are in a squad and participate in any of the constantly in-progress tournaments.

The game engine may be dated, but there is such a thing as "good enough". The many upgrades available (most free) are good enough...

RB will never die. I say this with confidence as I know how deep the game is. When I started making Hell's Angels, it was just a homebrew I concocted because I was sick of adding in each plane, then the skins, then the effects...etc..etc.etc. But it was then I realized just how deep the detail is in RB. It is truthfully just about limitless. I changed so many things using UOP4.5 as a base to get me started. It was amazing. The doors were wide open to add as many historical aspects as I could find. As HA grew, the desire to better it did as well. Folks asked me if I could add this, and add that, and could we see some of this and some of that... and I could do it with RB's format. With more skins, more squadrons, more attention to detail and more variety. Once Shredward jumped on board, we really ran the train at full speed. HA boasts the most variety per aircraft type than ANY WWI sim or game ever made. There are over 17 diferent wing styles for the Alb D.Va alone! That is what makes RB so deep. I was able to make seperate wing skins for aces, Jastas, squadrons...etc. It was great. Add-in the point that Cas made about missions, campaigns and all the rest and you have one hellouva lot of stuff to play with.

To this day, this aspect alone has not been duplicated. It's only drawback to the skin mapping was the lack of a right-side fuselage assignment, and that couls have been corrected on the SWWISA as we see with BvH's designs. Other than that, the combinations are nearly unlimited.

I'm not boasting HA, but more of what you can do with the RB format. I know a lot of modders out there of sims can do alot, but how much of it involves 4 areas, and as many squadron, plane assignments, time frames...etc that RB uses. None. Not with the detail that we are fortunate enough to enjoy with this remarkable SIM... not game... SIM. I still see a future for RB. Programmers know about it, and have got to consider it when looking for new ideas for a future WWI sim. Maybe someday, we'll see something new, but honestly... graphically better yes.... but gameplay... that will be tough to beat.

Brgds!

OvS

BTW... the only sim I know that can be modded with the depth that RB can be is Panzer Elite. Those guys really did a fantastic job on that sim.

RB3D dead? Point me to the sim that killed it, because I would love to fly that one! Until there is a WW1 combat sim that can begin to approach the Baron in scope and realism, it will never die. The more I see what kind of sims are released these days, and the more I play RB3D, the more I believe that the sim will never be surpassed. At least not in the forseeable future.

That is why I would like to see the owners of RB3D cut loose with the code, or mod it and expand it themselves, or sell the rights to the game, or something. I don't see anyone building a sim like the Baron from scratch. Concerning WW1 combat sims, the game is one in a million.

Well said, and I hope the right people read this .
Just as a shameless plug, there is a possibility of a great expansion for RB3d. See the thread about trackIR progress.
Also, right click on the link below and save as Target. (It won't run by streaming ) It is a video showing a biplane with the new trackir viewing system. Imagine this in Red Baron!
With enough push by us, we might be able to achieve this.

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~hotdognz/Files/fs96DOF.wmv

cheers

I think there will be a few guys that will always play this, as for me I will remember this game untill 2001 when I didnt play it as much as I changed from a voodoo card, I have tried a few months back with all the mods terrain, and it just isnt the same, at least online, the fm,s are terrible and for me now, online is the most important thing.

What WW1 sim do you fly where the FMs are OK?

To me one of the best features of RB
are the FMs!

Cas, I came to this thread to post a link to the video of the Moth in action and see that you have beaten me to it. It is truly awesome to think of this being implemented in a WW1 sim. I think the first one to do so will reap the benefits.

As sims develop, they become very complex. You need to outlay a lot of money and time to get the best out of a sim like IL-2 or Falcon 4 with HOTAS, pedals and TrackIR.

The beauty of WW1 is its simplicity. Combined with a TrackIR with 6DOF you could fly a WW1 sim with the simplest of joysticks and be just as good as someone with a complex HOTAS/pedals system.
The learning curve is easier as well.

This video has given me great hope that developers will see the possibilities that WW1 has to offer and will be more inclined to make the commitment to give us something special.

~E!~
D_T

We tried, several times to get the code from Sierra Dynamix. For whatever reason, they simply denied it, thinking about roylaties or whatever greed factor was involved. Now that S/D is effectively gone, we'll most likely never see it.

There were a lot of things taken out of RB3D that were in RBII, that alone angered folks when they upgraded to the 3D version. For YEARS we tried to get an inside contact to slip it out the back, then we went for the forward approach...etc...etc... no luck.

If you look at KOE, you will see the similarities between RB and KOE. Apparently, some (1 or 2) of the original developers that were on the RB3D team were a part of that mod. So that was our last hope in seeing a new RB format.

We did the best we could, but alas, the doors were always shut. Not sure why, but that's the way it goes. What would be great is to have someone that can thoroughly understand machine language reverse engineer the code of RB3D... but that could take an eternity.

Brgds!

OvS

Someone somewhere owns the right to the old sim. That means someone, somewhere has the power to make some kind of move in some direction regarding the sim. How does anyone profit from sitting on it? I can understand not wanting to give it away, but I don't understand just storing it in a vault where it is doing no one any good at all. Maybe they think it will increase in value like a stock.

It is almost like the sim has been forgotten and anyone who was ever associated with it has drifted off leaving it unattended. Where are old games generally kept when they are stored, on a hard drive? RB3D is on some ancient mainframe computer stored in an abandon building somewhere out on the Microsoft campus. Once a year when MS takes inventory the old building is unlocked, the lights turned on and some intern with a clipboard walks through making note of the serial numbers on all these old computers. When he's done he turns the light off, locks the door and leaves...

I like Double Taps comment that you can use the simplest joystick for Rb3d and still have a great time.

Heck, I've been using keyboard for so long using a joystick on Red Baron for me would be weird.

Thats the great beauty of WW1 sims in a nutshell.

Salute! Gos,
Do you mean you are using the keyboard for flying as well as views or just the views etc? If it is the former, you are a legend! There is no way you should be able to fly as well as you do!
~E!~
D_T

S! D-T

When I first got Red Baron, so many x-mas's ago, I had no joystick and flew with keyboard only.

There was a short period I flew with joystick, but after about a month the stick broke and I never sought to replace it.

Keyboard all the way.

I used to fly with a keyboard on a Sinclair Spectrum, then a keyboard and a mouse for Lucas Arts "Their Finest Hour", then eventually got a joystick for my old 8086 in about 1989. I would rather pull my toenails out with a pair of multi-grips than fly without one. I would get my arse kicked too much.

OvS gives us the facts and toadvine gives us the logic.
I have no reason to doubt either of them, and it is therefore so damned frustrating!
Yes, Poyungan, a smashing video isn't it. Imagine that in Red Baron. And I believe it is possible, if Jim Richardson of trackIR decides to do it.
I may be wrong on this, but I do not think having the source code is necessary!!!
TrackIR have made this work with CFS3 which, you may know, did not have a mouseview,(as like RB ) so previously trackIR couldn't work with it.
Now it can. The answer seems to be with TrackIR themselves!
If I may refer you guys to this forum and thread

http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=000010#000000

It seems that the more guys who ask for this for Red Baron, (or any sim), the more chance there is that TrackIR will implement it.

So may I ask that you state your interest on that forum please.

I already have.

What do you think this TrackIR will do to the frame rates in RB3D?

Based on my experience in IL-2, Rowan's BoB, and MSFS2004, I would say probably not much. I have not heard of people having issues with lesser rigs either.

Ditto- it seems not to make any impact re FPS.
I have used it very successfully with EAW. No FPS hit.I mention this because it is a same era sim as RB.

It will most likely have the same effect teamSpeak or RogerWilco have on Red Baron. I negligible FPS drop, but on afew rare cases it may be noticable.

Roger that, OvS. Even if S/D were still around, you'd still have to deal with the fact that they bailed out of flight sims totally in 1999 not long after the release of RB3D. Their line of Hoyle card games was more profitable (seriously!).

They fired their entire flight sim programming staff after they'd been working for months on another WWII sequel to their successful Aces Over Europe and Aces of the Pacific sims. Anybody remember their promised Desert Fighters? Or whatever it was going to be called...I can't remember. It was going to be a North African sim...very cool. They'd been hyping it for months before they finally killed it.

P.S. For what it's worth, I finally gave up on trying to get RB3D running on my new rig (see system specs below) without stuttering issues. I had no problems when I had my GeForce4 FX5900 card...Polovski's glide wrappers worked great. But when I upgraded to the 6800GT specifically for Pacific Fighters, nothing seemed to work perfectly. I even had problems with dgvoodoo. So, alas, RB3D is no longer on my HD.

But I still consider it to be one of the greatest sims ever.

I don't see why anyone would give up RB3D because of GLIDE issues - there are DD terrains that look BETTER than the GLIDE terrains (check links in my sig), and never any corrupted tiles or FPS issues.
My guess about the code is: it doesn't exist, it was lost, irretrievable, or at least the translator pages, or some of the original DEVS made off with it or wonked it.
No, no effort will ever out-do RB3D for a WWI sim, it's depth is staggering, it's graphics, even in it's day, were awfull, but we've been able to improve that and true photo-realistic terrains are not that far away from implementation.
This sim still has a long way to go.
If WFP's date-based operations could be made automatic, and in conjunction with the new "Moving Front" effort as well, this sim would see another major leap in advancement.
Another way would be to make a series of UOP's, each one covering one year and changing aircraft and other developements in the next year/UOP. Like HASP1915, HASP1916 -17 -18.
Oh, sorry, forgot - Otto says he's done, now :rolleyes:

Dumbo why don't you partition your drive and try running Win98 on the small portion? My dad does this with two drives rather than partition but it should work.

That is interesting HerrM.. uh Dumbo. It is not the first case I've read of where someone with a killer PC can't get decent frame rates with a Glide wrapper. So was PF worth it?

No room in the den for another PC? Say a dirt-cheap, used +- 600 mhz machine with a V3 and Win98 to run those great old games?

Original IL2 was the last flight sim to come out that I can run on my AMD 1 ghz. I am going to wait until MS releases 64-bit Windows and then spring for a new box.

S!

Skidmark S! Thanks to guys on this forum, particularly yourself, OvS, and Von, I am enjoying this sim now like I haven't enjoyed any other.It is awesome- and many thanks.
I am running with DG Voodoo quite well now, and I sympathise with Dumbo now that he has got a top line card that won't run in DG Voodoo (really strange and unexpected ,is that- shan't get that card )
Your advice re the DD is fine but didn't ever work for me, much as I tried. I always got big triangles on the horizon.
Is this a known problem with all cards, or just Radeons (9600 here ) ?
Is there a specific fix, or is it "pot luck " re your system?
You are obviously a supporter of DD and a tutorial on how to achieve it might help lots of chaps running with glidewrapper now, but seeking more FPS!

And you are right re the depth of this sim. I can't see anyone making a state of the art terrain/graphics WW1 sim with all that depth, today.
Nearest chance we've got is a makeover of Red Baron. Anybody know Indiana Jones' e- mail?
We need him to go look for the source code , I reckon
cheers

Exactly the same here No1_Reggie, bought it played for 1 hour sold it same day on ebay

Wow there are some stunning FMs available for RB3D!
Some that really capture the deadly camel and DR1 to a tee.

Sounds like you didn't have the game set to "Authentic" mode. If so, you would have very basic FMs and not the realistic ones.

Salute, LE_Heureux!

I never had a problem running the game with WinXP. I first ran into FPS problems when I upgraded to the Geforce 6800GT card from my Geforce4 FX5900 card for Pacific Fighters. Polovski's glide wrappers all worked great on the 5900 card, but for some reason they don't like the 6800 series. Neither does dgVoodoo, although that worked better than anything else. I would see wild fluctuations in FPS...all the way from the 70s down to the single digits during intense action close to the ground. Totally unplayable.

Salute, von Kesselberg!

It is not the first case I've read of where someone with a killer PC can't get decent frame rates with a Glide wrapper. So was PF worth it?

Absolutely. I love the carrier ops. Trying to land a smoking Corsair on a flattop after a particularly stressful mission really makes you sweat! The WWII Pacific Theater is probably my second love after WWI.

No room in the den for another PC? Say a dirt-cheap, used +- 600 mhz machine with a V3 and Win98 to run those great old games?

Unfortunately, no.

Salute, Skiddmark!

Interesting.

So is that the only thing that was impacted by the old Glide technology--the terrain? So what you're telling me is that I could have DD terrains + all of my other favorite patches (e.g., CdT's models, Garp's flameout patch, etc.)? What about Full Canvas Jacket?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RAC Goshawk:
[QB] Red Baron 3d isnt on its last legs, many have been saying that for years, its the sim that refuses to die.

The modding has no end in sight, one of the latest patches released last week has all new ways to elevate terrain, aka the Alps patch.

OK I give up. I cannot find the "Alps Patch" on SWWISA. Where is it?

sinbad

Hiya, St.Pete Sinbad! Alps patch? I keep up with the SWWISA forum, and I've not seen anything about this. The only Alps thing I know about was an unfinished ted file for the Italian Front patch. I seem to recall some discussion of the problems that prevented further progress on the terrain, but I don't know of any further progress.

There is a mountainous island terrain for use in MMP that has been around for a while, but this doesn't seem to be what you're talking about.

Anyone?

I am becoming less and less accepting of the "kryptonite fuselages" which in turn make it ineffective to get kills in RB when shooting from directly behind or behind and below -- which of course were the best positions in RL to use to attack most WWI aircraft (Gotha excepted).

While I can overlook the arcade style bouncing fuselage when the A/C hits the ground (I must wince each time and repeat several times - "he game has a great cmapaign mode; the game has a great campaign mode") it is becoming old.

I really hope we can either get to the code and deal with this serious flaw (there I've said it - blasphemer that I am) or get another sim to fill the void. Right not My ideal would be RB Campaign and missions, WFP aircraft with WoW terrain, graphics and ground objects.

So far Santa messed up again.

sinbad

Your bullet mass factor is adjustable both with CM11 and CP. However, many, if not most, pilots never scored a kill!
"Bouncing fuselages": don't watch!
Some areas of RB already have very mountainous terrain, dangerous to fly in.
New photorealistic terrains are in the works.
Yes, the modders have been bashing their heads against the wall trying to make up for RB3D's flaws.

You may be back on ebay looking for another copy of CFS3 some time in the new year, to play "Over Flanders Fields".

Will probably need a good rig to look near its best and will still have some of CFS3's weaknesses but should be a good complement to RB3d for WW1 fans, including the ability to fly or gun in a range of 2-seaters. Even CFS3-WW2 has been much improved by the community. It's now my joint most played sim alongside RB3d, FWIW.

The WW1 mod will be very good and probably be the best route to a modern WW1 sim for most of us, WoW is noce but has a much longer way to go and less easy to get there. Once OFF is out, I reckon it won't be long till the planeset expands like it has for all the CFS sims. Will never have some of the features that make RB3d the best of its kind but who says we have to play one sim only?

Salute Dumbo,

is it possible you are in need of techsupport here?

Drop me a note at the usual place (WoV) or send a mail to "jgs4purolator80 at gmx dot de" and I'll certainly try to give you a hand here. From what I read this could be a driver issue, but I don't want to draw any premature conclusions yet.

Can't blame you actually for not playing RB anymore. I sit here in front of my main-rig (specs see below, the 3.2Ghz machine) and the computer I use for RB is not listed below in my signature. It's an 866Mhz P3 with a Voodoo5 card and 384MB, OS Win98, perfectly suited for the task and way sufficient. And it is not set up permanently either due to lack of space.

Remember the trouble I had with P4s, Voodoo2s and Win2k when it came to RB3D? Never more than 32 fps and nothing I tried could solve this.

P.S.: Nice to read that you are happy with your new rig and with PacificFighters.

Well, have you tried since?
I have a AMD 64 3200 laptop, 1 gig Ram, Radeon 9600 card, Windows XP. And I run RB with FPS 70 down to 24 in glide mode using D G Voodoo 1.3 emulator- It is brilliant!!
I have the basic RB3d, patched with the OTE+PL objects terrain. D G Voodoo 1.3 set up as per Polovski's site, running in 16 bit at 1280 x 1024 res. ( Desktop at 1024 x 768 x 32 ). I also use capt Darwins FCJ panel- there are many adjustments available there-

It runs better than PF with the same number of planes in the air, though, of course, it doesn't look as good.
Better AI and more fun, mind

There is this coming down the pipeline too:
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=114;t=002378#000005

...but no dynamic campaign! Arghh!

Salute, purolator...mein guter Freund!!!

Thanks so much for your kind offer to help...as always. You were one of the few that stuck with me over a year ago when I was trying to solve that maddening lock-up problem I was experiencing in MMP. That blown mobo was what led me to build this new rig!

I don't want to mess around with my VGA drivers just for the sake of RB3D. The ones I'm using now...66.93 WHQL...are the latest and greatest that Oleg & Co. recommend for Pacific Fighters and they're running smooth as butter. And you know the old computer adage...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Even when RB3D was working on my new rig...back when I had the Geforce4 FX5900 card and Polovski's wrapper...I wasn't playing it nearly as much as Forgotten Battles: Ace Expansion Pack. I guess (for me, at least) the game had finally gotten a little "long in the tooth"...even with Kess' superb Full Canvas Jacket upgrade. On top of that, the number of players flying MMP during my favorite time slot had dwindled to a mere handful.

So, I finally decided that I was tired of all the screwing around and headaches needed to keep the "old girl" running...particularly now that 95%+ of my limited flight sim time was being spent someplace else.

Please don't anybody misinterpret this post...it's not meant to be a slam. RB3D will always reign as one of the greatest flight sims of all time.

I tried it with Win2k and P4s, 1.6Ghz and 2.4Ghz, always used the Voodoo2 cards and I assume there was the problem with this 32fps-limit I had.

Since I got my hand on a P3 with a Voodoo5, as described above, I usually have an fps rate of high 40s and I'm more than happy with it, hence I was simply not interested anymore to try RB on my latest machine, and I also didn't want to add any Voodoo cards in there either

@Dumbo

Not so long ago actually You had this settled in January for about 2 weeks and then the problems restarted, but then you also said the issue started in September '03 originally.

I for my part can't blame you. It's not that RB3D has become long in the tooth for me, but I always shared my computer time with other games. And I admit that I have spent more time with RB3D about, say, 2 years ago, than now.

And iirc you wanted a state-of-the-art machine for IL2:FB anyway then.

I also got IL2:FB/AEP/PF in a merged installation and play with it, but actually I prefer StrikeFighters most of the time reserved for flightsims.

StrikeFighters is apparently endlessly moddable, originally only 4 jets plus variants were included (A-4B, -C, -D, F-100D, F-104G, F-4B, -C, -D, -E) and the third patch eleiminated most of the bugs it was plagued with.

Now all the addons (including variants of planes) made by the community of SF reached almost 230 I think, from a Curtiss Hawk biplane till the F-16 and MiG-29, also including helicopters. That means, there are already some WW2 planes as well.
Furthermore, there are planes available you will hardly have seen in another sim, or do you know any other program (apart from MS Flight Simulator maybe) where you can fly a Saab J-29F Tunnan? Or a Saab J-35F Draken? Or a Yak-28P 'Firebar'???

And these are just the planes, there are other addons like terrains, groundobjects and ships too!

Online playing is not so strong, but that may well change, at least for me.

Anyway, maybe we'll meet in PF one day. But given my experience with offline playing (where I already suck) I better have a huge bullseye painted on my crate if I really try it online :rolleyes:

But maybe I could lure you into the wondrous world of StrikeFighters now I don't know if it's still on sale, but if you get "Wings over Vietnam" it's fine too, because 99% of all addons for SF can be used there too.

In your signature I see that you use Mushkin RAM. I am surprised, because that was the one listed in the test I presented to you in March as 'not working' with the board.

Did you perform a BIOS update maybe? I recall you wanted to get Apacer RAM originally, did it break down?

S! - Well, you obviously have RB running well on the Voodoo 5 machine.-but your last phrase is curious? You don't have to add any Voodoo cards to your new (signature ) machine to run RB with the D G Voodoo emulator. The D G is some software that lets you run the sim off your Radeon 9800 Pro card
When you get in curiosity mode, you might like to load RB on your new machine and try it
If not as good as your other 'puter, you can always uninstall RB

cheers

Salute, purolator!

I started out with two sticks of 512MB Samsung DDR RAM, actually. Worked like a charm. I ended up insisting on a "name brand"...nobody here seemed to know a lot about Apacer.

I wound up with Mushkin quite literally by accident. I upgraded to two 1GB sticks of Samsung DDR RAM a couple of weeks ago and got some bad RAM. My buddy who runs the store has offered to replace it at no extra cost with two 1GB sticks of low-latency Mushkin, which he says is "better for my board anyway." While it's on order, he installed two 512MB sticks of Mushkin DDR RAM which is working just fine.

Go figure!

Regarding BIOS updates...I have absolutely no idea how to do that, so I don't go there! (Remember, I know just enough about computers to be EXTREMELY dangerous lol.)

@Cas

Fair enough, I'm aware of these Glide emulators, but it is a matter of philosophy really. When I got a machine which is well suitable for RB I simply see no need to install it on my high-end system. Furthermore, there are some other machines I could use as well, but the P3 is almost exclusively reserved for RB, thus the system will nto get clogged with unnecessary software.

Installed is anty-spyware, anti-virus, a software firewall, Mozilla, Teamspeak2 and RB - period, not more needed and it runs like a charm

@Dumbo

Ok, if you've never have performed a BIOS update then do not start with it now That is, unless it is really necessary, otherwise I'm not fond of them either.

*Shrugs* must be reworked or different RAM from Mzshkin then. It works fine though and that is the important part.

In case you wonder why I got an Asus board for my new machine, MSI wasn't available at my dealer and this is one of the better ones in it's class.