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F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion

I am planning to Convert my gameport F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) to USB along with my CH Pro Pedals after reading the MMJoy2 Thread and posting a few questions there but thought I should start another thread here , so as not to clutter up that thread , so I will copy some of that info over here too but 1st many thanks to Mega_Mozg_13 and Sokol1 to start.

The MMJoy2 Main Thread with Links to MMJoy2 Firmware etc is over Here:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4322189/1

My 1st Post on page 109 : http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...uild-your-own-usb-controller#Post4322189


FIRMWARE DOWNLOADS PAGE ...try 2016-8-18 it has the least bugs currently....... page is in Russian but I don't think you need to translate to see Dates

Direct link to 2016-08-18 Update1 file FW LINK

ALL FIRMWARE DOWNLOADS


I have been gathering Info and Pics from Numerous places to start this Process , so I'll add that Info in posts below and try and add Ideas and Pics of my own as I go , but any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated .

I am planning on using a Clone Leonardo Board ($12-15 each) in both the TQS Base and the F16-FLCS Base to help simplify this for myself as I don't do electronics as a hobby or otherwise, though I have plenty of experience with Tools and Soldering, and have bought myself a Hakko FX-888D and a couple of Tips for it and have to say it is a nice quality Tool which I appreciate, but it isn't really needed though Temperature Control and fast heat up is nice after years of a standard 25w Stick Soldering Iron ( now with a bad tip )

The Leonardo I already have , I had issues with it's Reset Button not initiating the Boot Loader Mode , this maybe because when I got it I loaded the Blink Sketch from the Arduino IDE (1.6.3) per the Arduino Website Leonardo Setup Tutorial, and thus the Computer is constantly polling the Leo running the Sketch and apparently did not "see" the Reset Command , so the Reset button would not "reset" the Leonardo to bootloader mode. It would disappear (per the MMJoy2 Wiki) but almost instantly reappear on the same Com Port. But reading about the GND and RESET Pin on the Arduino Pro-Micro and touching it's GND and RESET Pins twice quickly to do it, gave me the idea to quickly push the Leonardo Reset button quickly twice and it worked ! and gives me 5-8 secs to hit the Firmware download button in MMJoy2 now.

***Update***

My extra Kuman Leonardo Clone Boards arrived from China (only one week excellent time) and I did not load the Arduino Blink sketch as I did on the Original Leonardo ( per Arduino instructions) and both boards instantly showed me the Bootloader Com Port after hitting the Reset Button the 1st time, and I loaded MMJoy2-2016-11-01 with no issues unlike the 1st time and then programmed two axis and changed the USB VID and PID and name on each one so windows sees them differently , again with no problems unlike the Original Board , so I think the Trick is NOT to load any other Code to New Leonardo Boards before you Upload the MMJoy2 Firmware ,as it seems to cause issues with the USB Port as it is being constantly Polled by the Blink Sketch that is already in the Firmware causing an issue for MMJOY2 , the Arduino 1.6.3 IDE , does not have any issue finding the Bootloader Port itself BTW , it scans for the Bootloader Port and then uploads , MMJoy2 does not do this.

KB


On the Hardware front Sokol1 has pointed out that both the FLCS and TQS PCB Boards get totally removed from the Bases and are not reused at all in the Conversion along with a lot of the Wiring in the Bases needing Changing or replacing , this makes room for the Leonardo Boards that will take over all the old PCB Functions so it does not matter if you have the Original FLCS Chips (v3.04/3.08) or the Stickworks Digital Chip Upgrades that came out in about 2000 as the Original PCB is not used at all.

The Wiring and PCB inside the FLCS Handle is KEPT , the PCB already has 4021 Shift Registers for the Buttons etc to reduce the number of Wires needed and so it can be reused as is by connecting 4 Wires to the ICSP Header and the red to an AI pin on the Arduino.

On the TQS the Thumb Eraser Button (mouse emulation) must be replaced along with it's wiring , I plan to use an extra FLCS Hat Switch since I have some in a Repair Kit I bought many years ago from TM and it seems to fit kinda Ok in the hole left by the Eraser Button box which can be removed in one piece easily. I won't be saving the Tac. Switch (small white button) but you could if replacing the Eraserhead with a small PS2/3 Joystick button or similar perhaps.

I am going to Connect the CH Pro pedals to the TQS after rewiring them totally to Work in Plane Mode Only since I also have an old TM Racing Set I can convert if needed. There is no PCB to worry about in the pedals, it is all direct wired to the Leo. I am going to use and old Gameport Cable to connect between the Pedal and TQS, since I have it and reuse some Gameport male and female Header plugs in an old JoySwitch Box I had stored with my FLCS/TQS Combo ,since I want them to be detachable if needed.

I am planning on Using the TM MFD's (USB) as well so at this point I won't be adding a multitude of new buttons to my TQS or FLCS, like some have done , unless I find issues with the TM MFD's.

My FLCS Rubber Boot's Retaining Ring are damaged (cracked) so at the moment, I think I will move the FLCS Handle after some modifications, to the Base of an Old gameport TM X-Fighter JoyStick I also have since it appears to have a nice spring/gimbal setup and to my surprise a metal plate for it's base unlike the FLCS, which adds some nice Weight to it. It will take a bit of modification, as the shaft is too long and has a square notch but I think it will work fine ? but I have not researched the Pots in it yet, so I'm not sure if I need to swap them over to the FLCS ones too?

I will update this thread as I go hopefully and save a post or two below this one , so I can add pics and updates later hopefully.

Thanks for Reading this and Helping out...

Kbird.

.

Some Pics From Before the Conversion from inside the FLCS,TQS and CH Pro Pedals.



*** TAKE LOTS OF PICS of your own, as you disassemble your TQS and FLCS especially of how and where the Wires are attached , I have found while doing the Mod that a number of wires have fallen off switches etc while on the bench, and having the pics has saved me from having to do alot of googling etc to figure out what went where.

BUILD / CONVERSION Pics....

I have posted Pics throughout the Thread as I went actually , as I asked questions and others helped , If there is a pic of something particular you need post a message or PM me...

THE ATTACHED FILES ARE HOW I USED MMJoy and the LEONARDO PINS


KB

The Good INFO From the MMJOy2 Thread so you don't need to hunt for it


- I currently have nothing attached to the Leonardo , which may explain the error? I am just starting this endeavor as I have a gameport FLCS16+TQS and CH Pedals that I have had for many years (nearly unused) with the Stickworks Digital Chips installed , though I still have a number of the Old Chips as well as some new TM Pots and Hat Buttons I got before TM stopped selling them.


- If I remember correctly Windows only recognize joystick that has at least 1 or 2 axis.

And when make modifications in previous configuration (axis, buttons) hit the "Clear settings".

Convert F-16 FLCS will be easy, just wire the axis, and the Shift Register board inside grip to MMjoy2.

For throttle is more easy reuse the existent diode matrix

The "eraserhead" "IBM mouse" (under thumb finger) need be replaced with min-stick or HAT, their serial protocol is not compatible with MMJoy2.

- You were right Sokol1 , once Windows had 2 AXIS (X+Y) assigned JoyCPL started working without the Error above , assigning one button per the FAQ didn't work for some reason. Of course nothing is attached yet so not really working but slowly getting there thanks.

I have been reading the thread since last week , so I have picked up some 74HC165 SReg ,MCP3208 chips and 1N4148 diodes already , just not sure how I'll use them yet , still looking for pics of schematics etc before I get to far into this and ruin something by accident. smile

KB


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- I think diodes should be added. My TQS had none

- Where should diodes go in the TQS ? do you mean putting 1N4148 diodes on the buttons for the matrix I was just reading about to stop ghosting? does anyone have Schematics for the FLCS+TQS Wiring perhaps ?

Thx,KB.

- Think in diodes in this way: One diode in one of 2 pins of each switch or HAT (HAT are just 4 switches around a pole). Then became easy. smile Or, for example using a breadboard for put the diodes side at side, and wire buttons and HAT there.

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Do you add the 1N4148 Diode to one of the Button wires in the TQS Handle ? which one ? or does it matter ? or best to do it in the Base just before the Arduino ? ( I have read in the thread that this is for debouncing the buttons and a Hat is really 4 buttons,so I already bought some)


- In what pin of button put the diode don't matter.

- In HAT you will notice 4 wires and one common - because there are 4 switches internally, in this case put one diode in 4 individual wires.

- You can put the diodes in a breadboard on base, but in this case you need run 2 wires for each button on grip.
The diodes in buttons save some wires, but require more attention with wire order.

- The diode don't need by exactly in the switch pin, can be in middle of the wire running for then, if switch are in difficult to access place.


- Thanks , more good info , I did not realise from the reading I needed a Diode on EACH switch in the POV HAT, ie I wasn't thinking about them as 4 individual switches, one for each direction , so one diode on all 4 wires ...lots of Soldering to do then , I'm glad I got a good Soldering Iron after all these years with a Fine Tip as there appears to be 19 wires in the TQS Handle , not sure what is what yet though.

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- mmjoy support only 74HC165 and 4021 shift register.

- and use 1N4148 diodes on the buttons (or button matrix) to stop Ghosting


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- Since Arduino are cheap, one in each device make thighs more easy to do.
And you get a more flexible set, can use the throttle with other joystick for example.

You can connect the CH pedal - need add a 3rd wire in their pots - to throttle or joy base.
More easy in joy because there are a DB-15 female connector that you can reuse, or migrate this connector for throttle base.

Until now no one did a steep by steep tutorial for do this, since are several ways to do. Maybe you will make the first? smile

In FLCS probable you don't have to change nothing in grip, so is just mater to install Arduino in base - even no need these shield PCB, just a support for then is too small and don't have holes for fix. Easy to do.

Wire the 2 pots and the 6 wires coming from Shift Register on grip.

The ease way to do this is... start make.

- Thanks Sokol1 , I will order some cheap Clone Leonardo's from Amazon , it will take a few weeks from China but I have lots to learn and figure out before they get here anyway smile I could not find a good tutorial for the Bodnar BU USB Connector Boards either when I looked last (surprisingly little help on his site), that why I decided to try MMJoy2 and Arduino since there seems to be good Community Support smile

I have the Original TQS , not the Cougar TQS , so I am not sure what is in the Handle yet , but the F16_FLCS and the Pedals used to attach to it via gameport connectors , The F16_FLCS does not have any extra gameport connectors , just the Old AT Style Keyboard connectors for Input and output (cord which I never cut off) , maybe the F22 Pro did? There is also the DB9 Connector for the Serial Mouse / Cursor Control (which I need to change to a button) . Mot sure If I can reuse some of the Wiring for things as yet.

Not sure what is in the Handle of the FLCS_16 either yet either as I have only opened the base on it and the TQS so far , I am hoping for the Shift register but that may be only in the F22 Handle?.

Thanks for the Info on converting the CH Pro Pedals that will be very handy , not my favorite Rudders (too narrow) but they may have to do for now since I already own them and a set of Gameport TM T2 Racing Pedals and Wheel.

Thanks for your Help and Advice so far .... and Merry Christmas.

- OK, I forget that F16FLCS/22PRO connect to TQS and not the contrary (have one these last there, in the shelf at more than 10 years, not fan of F-16 grip).

But you have two options to connect the pedal, reusing the original cables. In TQS or in F16 in this case using the PS2 cable fitted inside pedal cutting one end or installing there a correspondent PS2 connector, the cable has 5 wires internally and is what you need for pedal:

X, Rx, Rz axis, +5V, GND.

Or in TQS, in this case using the DB15 cable of pedal. What you need change inside pedal is:

The pot's is wired with two wires (as resistance), but for USB you need 3:

+5V
Signal
Gnd

But usually this gameport cables has several wires internal, and if need the external mesh over internal cables can be used as Gnd.

In F16 grip has a Shift Register board internally, basically the same of F22 PRO, Cougar or Warthog.

The basic difference between F16/F22 TQS and Cougar TQS is:

Cougar is made in Zamac (cheap metal that can broken is fall on ground), use more cheap potentiometer in throttle axis, their "TDC" is a mini-stick (F22 TQS is mouse for laptop) and has no circuit internally, only a diode matrix.

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- Hi, I did converted TM FLCS and TQS to USB with 2 Arduino Pro Micro. FLCS had shiftregister, that I did damage so I had to do a diode matrix. Inside TQS you only have to add diodes to each switch... and connect them. I replaced the rubber thumb thingy with a PS2 ministick. Good luck!!


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- But TQS don't has Shift Register (or is integrated in main PCB...).

The easy way is, remove all that have internally, the "laptop" mouse, leave the small button bellow, add one diode in each switch. Not difficult if you plan what do first.

BTW - Eventually, If need you can buy potentiometers from CH - cost ~10$, and use in F16 and TQS, they have same format and values, is too made by CTS, but CH models has better quality.
But TLE501x contactless sensors work better and cost less

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- Communication between F16 and TQS when connected the old way --- FLCS>RDDR>TQS.

If place the MMJOy2 inside TQS will be required for F16
+5V
Gnd
X input
Y input
4 other TLE501x inputs - can be shared between 2 axis.
3 inputs for Shift Register, besides the shared +5V, Gnd
Total of 11 wires.

If MMJoy2 is placed on F16:
+5v
Gnd
Throttle input
Range input
Ant input
X in mini-stick if used
Y in mini-stick if used
10 buttons - 2 x 5 matrix = 7 wires
Total 14 wires

or if not used mini-stick but HAT - 3x5 matrix = 8 wires
Total 13 wires

The others connections are one HAT (COMM) and some press or toggle switches, just require buttons inputs, and as they are few can be wired with diode matrix (row x columns), e.g. 2x5.


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- The Keyboard Cable and port on the F16 FLCS is actually AT style , not PS2 but the number of wires is the same I think? 5 , but I think I will Wire the FLCS as one Joystick and the TQS and Rudders connected as another , so I was thinking I could just use the original Rudder to TQS Gameport plug ? but perhaps not, it may need a direct Wire Connection to the Arduino so I would need to add a 15pin Game Port Connector with accessible soldering points.


The format PS2/DIN or DB15 or DB9... don't matter if has the number of pins and wires you need for plug the pedal. You need 5 wires for pedal, study what connector will be more convenient use.


*** Edit ..maybe I misunderstood ? .... more reading and now I think I am not reusing the TQS or FLCS Circuit Boards at all , everything is wired to the Arduino in each base instead.


Yes, only reuse the Shift Register board in the FLCS grip and it's wiring, you need to remove all other boards.


So both TQS and FLCS PCB's are taken out of their Bases to make room for the Arduino Boards ...Thanks for that clarification too...


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- This joy & throttle combo need a USB controller with at least 5 axis:
2 for joy X, Y, 1 for throttle, 1 antenna, 1 for range.

Or 7 if you plan use a PS2 mini-stick (2 axis) for replace the "IBM" mouse under thumb in throttle leaving the TQS like Cougar TQS.

The only part of original electronics that you will reuse is the Shift Register board inside F22 grip.
Remove the other circuit boards but leave buttons, HAT, wires and his connector in place.

- The ANT and Range and mini joy pots how connect this PCB?

In TQS the ANT is just a conventional pot, require 3 wires +5V, Gnd, signal.

- The Range pot is not a double stacked pot - ie. 2 pots in one axis

On The Range Pot , the one near the shaft is actually a switch. The one at the bottom is the pot.
See the switch has 2 terminals and the other 3.


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KB.

Wiring and PinOut Pics so far....

SEE ATTACHED IMAGES AS WELL ..













Not my TQS but Helpful for some ,this is a Cougar TQS though...




A Conversion using the BU0836 Bodnar Chip instead





Possible Wiring for CH Pro Pedals Pedals courtesy of CubHanger:

http://www.cubpilotshangar.net/page2.html















KB

MY PERSONAL CONVERSION NOTES

a bit rough as hand written, as they were for my own use but I thought perhaps someone else may find some of it helpful in the Future.....



KB.

Kbrid,

Nice start, very detailed tutorial.



X-Fighter use the same base of F22PRO, but the gimbal in this base, in both stick use very heavy torsion springs, depends on game preferences maybe you will prefer the F16FLCS gimbal. Anyway look in F16FLCS fit inside X-Fighter base, since this is more heavy and result a more stable stick.

This "box converter" is for Cougar TQS, connect reusing their Diode Matrix:

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2016/12/full-40431-130671-tqs2_to_usb.jpg

Hi Sokol1 , yes thanks to you and your many posts over the years here and elsewhere , I am finally working on it

I did not know the base for the X-Fighter was the same as the F22Pro but yes it has a big coil spring in it rather than the 2 smaller springs of the FLCS, seems nicer to me and I don't ever remember using it much it was just for ouick flying without programming everything on the FLCS+TQS combo , so it should be in good shape and the mods don't appear to be too hard.

I was looking at the TM Hotas X (Hotas 3)Joystick (available separately too) and it appears to have the same boot retaining rig as the FLCS but it is metal , so I guess they finally fixed that issue , maybe I should of bought one of them and gutted it for Conversion use instead


I have started dissembling everything including the Pedals ,and will start converting/rewiring them 1st since that is the easy part and good practice for the rest I think.



KB.

Look for car shift or U-joint boot:

https://s9.postimg.org/sebwl2bvv/Coifa.jpg

EDIT - https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/3690-mehanika-rus-ot-megamozg/page-2#entry367420

This is how I would like to convert:
one pro micro panel for both device (FLCS+TQS) and put in the TQS base.
So I Should be :
1 shift reg in the FLCS handle
2 TLE5010 PCB
1 base PCB ( which collect the shift reg and X,Y axis TLE5010 wires and led to TQS)
If I count well this 14 wires , so I can use the original DB15 connector to connect from FLCS to TQS

In TQS:
1 TLE5010 PCB for Z axis
1 shift reg in TQS handle
1 pro micro shield (where put in connector from FLCS and Collect the TQS wires and there would be an extra connector for rudder TLE5010 and other additional buttons)

I don'know, how can show properly this schematic

this method only need one USB connection for PC and the MMjoy program set up is much more simpler.

If you want the controllers tied together, put the controller in joy base.

This means small length of wires for the most important axis, X and Y.
Use the big wires ~1,5 meter - for throttle axis, less important.

More length the wires more tendency to pick noise.

Just invert the planed boards places.

BTW - Picture (from il-2(ru) of (F16/F22) TQS converted (standalone) for USB - in this case using DIY MJoy16 ("Grandfather" of MMJoy2).
Notice that the cable (multicolored wires) coming from grip was not changed, and although inside grip is not showed, there as simple matter of cut the wire coming for one pin of each button and add a diode. This is (IMO) the more easy way to do.

jpg images

The diodes in PCB on base is for the extra buttons installed in base case.

That is a nice conversion Sokol , looks like Mega_Mozg is as good on the Hardware side as he is on the Software , at least I think it is him , I don't read Russian

KB.

Hello Kbird,

the X-Fighter uses a different base from the F22 Pro. It has normal springs not the torsion springs and the mechanics are made of plastic. But it's in my opinion the best base original Thrustmaster ever has made. I have three of them here. I love this stick, and it's also the only 1:1 copy of an B8 standard flight grip you could get. All others from Thrustmaster like the old FCS, PFCS and the later TopGun aren't the right size.

But back to the base, just remove the springs inside and you have a relatively good feedback from the stick for flying. No more hard centering. The stick centers over other mechanics beyound the dust cover. Could be a little stronger, but for my opinion a real good feeling. I hate the centering of most flight sticks and never found any good solution from any company. Some say that the saturn ring mechanics is real good (Suncom Hawk, Talon and Eagle) but it's only great moving it around the corners, cause it has also the same "latch back to center" problem.

I use the X-Fighter bases in my cockpit for my selfmade side- and center-stick controllers. I have also connected a rubber boot from a canibalized HOTAS-X to the X-Fighter base. The ring around the boot and the boot itself is much better.
I have 12 FLCS here and none of them has an intact ring around the rubber. The plastic it is made of, is very poor quality and they used electric drills to put the HOTAS together. Many of the screw connections are broken even if the sticks are in original mint condition. Same is with the TQS.

Thanks for that Base Wiring Pic Sokol , I was thinking to leave the Ribbon cable as it is and just cut in the Diodes too , I don't think I need the extra Buttons , since I was thinking to get the TM Cougar MFDs , I see they are directly supported in the early access Sim CAP2 I was thinking of getting since it is only $30 ATM , have anyone tried the SIM ? it isn't Falcon4 BMS but that is a good thing for some of us , infact it sort of reminds me of EF2000 for some reason , one of my favourite Sims for a quick , "get up and fly" without 2 hrs of prep on the Runway


KB.


And Some Pics of the Inside of my TQS Handle for Reference :

Have made an extra nozzle control for CAP2 at my TQS, but I hadn't the time to test the sim. But it looks real good and the flight behavior should be relative realistic, as far as I have read in some reviews.

Started on the CH Pedals, Undid the 15 Base screws and lifted it off only to have all the springs pop off etc, it may have been smarter to flip it back over 1st had I known , but it shouldn't be an issue I don't think.

Since I have it apart I have added new Feet to it to stop it sliding (always an issue) but also to stop some of the Flex in the base I seem to remember it had. One thing to note is you can pretty much only add the feet exactly where the CH Engineer's did as any bolts or screws will interfere with the Black Sliding base units for each Pedal.

I used an old 20 pin P.S. wiring harness to get my new wires for the 3 Pots and just used 9 different colours , so what you see colour wise in my Photos doesn't mean anything as far as "Electrical Standards" go , I just need to keep track of the colours myself. *** not sure if doing it this way was a good idea yet as far as getting it all put back together?

I also used an old Computer Case 5.25" Slot Black Cover plate and some 5 min. Epoxy to Fill the Holes left n the TQS Base due to removing the TQS Original PCB.


KB.

For the replacing the eraser head mouse you could also use a thumb stick of an old gamepad and connect it to unused axis of your USB-contoller-pcb.

Hi Repvez , I am new to this too and don't know much about the TLE5010x Chips myself , (I am going to try my Pots and some spares 1st) so I will need to leave help with that to Sokol1.

I also don't plan to join the TQS back to the FLCS as it was done originally , I plan to use a cheap Leonardo Clone in the base of the TQS and another in the FLCS and have them plugged in directly to the computer individually, assuming I can get it all to work that way of course.

KB.

Take a look in this CH Pedal 'mod' for remove the center "clunck":

http://imgur.com/gallery/GW6Hl

Good Find Sokol1 but you just added to my work ...:) I haven't heard about this mod before, but I think I might do it, as it sounds like it makes a difference and I don't want to open these up again that is for sure

KB