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Just been flying on the Repka full real server (nice server), when this happened...
I had just taken of in my spit 1a and just after the sound cut out (no that's not this problem ) i get bounced by a 109 flown by a guy called "BERLIN" he gets hits on my right wing before i can get out the way.
He flys past and dives...i half roll and im after him, just as im about to fire he dives down to ground level and starts flying through the trees! i cant believe someone would do that, i pull off as i cant bring myself to cheat as well.
So i ask him why hes flying through the trees to escape?
He says on chat its a "tactic" and not cheating! and he always does it, its his "escape tactic"!!
This is about the 3rd person ive seen doing this...but i guess that's what you get, if the trees cant hurt you.
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We all know there are dicks out there that will exploit any option in the game to cheat mate.. sad isn't it. 
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Well I said this would happen, but many refused to believe me, Ive seen it many times myself already, I guess we cant call it a sim if you can fly through Tree's, hell i dont think you can even do that in WOP. Game on the shelf for me at the moment its beyond fixing IMHO.
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depends how low u go in wop but yes the trees have hit boxes lol
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Game on the shelf for me at the moment its beyond fixing IMHO. Leaves you more time for the forum then!
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Game on the shelf for me at the moment its beyond fixing IMHO. Leaves you more time for the forum then! Hurrah, thers always a plus!!
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Tree:1020 posts
Freycinet: 11893 posts...
Okaaaaaay
No hitboxes on the trees are a joke. One of many.
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Odd, yes I've flown through trees, but during one crash event my 110 fussy ended up lodged in a tree
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ROFL, I had someone do this to me.
I always try to keep at tree top level.
Tree your such a drama queen, the only problem for me atm is the damned sound and low fps (40Fps atm).
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NO server option to remove trees?
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Maybe online umpires and referees can help. maybe 3 or 4 guys flying a Spit or 109 and painted in a "Zebra stripe" paint scheme?  Probably impractical but i am trying. Oh we would also have to make the umpire planes immune to gunfire.
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Classic .....says it all!
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Yup, Frey was right. Tree will have more time for the forums as he clearly needs to catch up, he's way behind now. 
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One reason I liked EAW so much was that the trees were big enough you could play dodge the trees when someone was chasing you. If you hit a tree you exploded but if being chased it gave an opportunity to have your opponent shoot trees rather than you. I think the trees may have been to large for scale but it was fun. Same was true for buildings.
Race you to the Mucky Duck!
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lol.. if you are dodging in and out of trees for cover, something has gone extremely wrong in your combat tactics!
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Trooper, that "WAS" his tactic...bounce planes taking off then escaping low through the trees!! i asked him!!
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Couldn't they plant a very occasional "hard tree" in the decoration trees - would still save CPU ressources but if you can't see which one is hard and which one isn't, you would damn well stay out of their way.
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I wonder if they have Colonel, as I posted earlier once my aircraft became lodged in a tree, it appeared to be stuck in the branches
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Couldn't they plant a very occasional "hard tree" in the decoration trees - would still save CPU ressources but if you can't see which one is hard and which one isn't, you would damn well stay out of their way. That's a great idea! Someone using the trees as a dodge would face the same consequences as using low fog to evade a pursuer. I like it!
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Just been flying on the Repka full real server (nice server), when this happened...
I had just taken of in my spit 1a and just after the sound cut out (no that's not this problem ) i get bounced by a 109 flown by a guy called "BERLIN" he gets hits on my right wing before i can get out the way.
He flys past and dives...i half roll and im after him, just as im about to fire he dives down to ground level and starts flying through the trees! i cant believe someone would do that, i pull off as i cant bring myself to cheat as well.
So i ask him why hes flying through the trees to escape?
He says on chat its a "tactic" and not cheating! and he always does it, its his "escape tactic"!!
This is about the 3rd person ive seen doing this...but i guess that's what you get, if the trees cant hurt you. Why you call it cheating? If the game allow to fly trough trees why should one not do it? Isn`t MP gaming on public servers about to look aft advantages you can get to win against youre opposer? If you don`t follow him or at least to try to track him until he is free of trees it`s your problem, isn`t it? I don`t want to offend you, really, thats just my view.
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I guess its a mindset, i don't think flying through trees is realistic so i don't do it. i guess others feel different.
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I guess its a mindset, i don't think flying through trees is realistic so i don't do it. i guess others feel different. It's called "gamesmanship" or "win at all costs". Personally I fly MP for the historical value and derive satisfaction from using tactics and ACM authentic to the period. I'd get great satisfaction from achieving one kill this way, and no satisfaction whatsoever from boosting my score by exploiting a flaw in the game to gain advantage over an opponent - even if that opponent had same access to this particular flaw. Others feel differently - that the arena is the same for everyone and all's fair in order to win. Neither is "more right" than the other in the strictest sense unless the rules are clearly laid out beforehand, but the two camps don't always play well together, anyway.
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Why you call it cheating? If the game allow to fly trough trees why should one not do it? Isn`t MP gaming on public servers about to look aft advantages you can get to win against youre opposer? If you don`t follow him or at least to try to track him until he is free of trees it`s your problem, isn`t it? I don`t want to offend you, really, thats just my view.
If this was COD, as in call of duty, I could accept that, but i expect a more gamesmanship type attitude from Flight simmers. at least that's the way it used to be. Although looking at this forum lately, those days may be gone.
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Why you call it cheating? If the game allow to fly trough trees why should one not do it? Isn`t MP gaming on public servers about to look aft advantages you can get to win against youre opposer? If you don`t follow him or at least to try to track him until he is free of trees it`s your problem, isn`t it? I don`t want to offend you, really, thats just my view.
If this was COD, as in call of duty, I could accept that, but i expect a more gamesmanship type attitude from Flight simmers. at least that's the way it used to be. Although looking at this forum lately, those days may be gone. Hmmm Well I consider it very gamey and unfair. At best it is exploiting a defect in the game to get an unfair advantage. Seems kinda like cheating to me. Odd thing is in original IL2FB if even touch the trees you blow up. Even "invisible trees" are there that will destroy you.. That is, areas just above the treetops that are transparent, but the game engine says its still trees. I have crashed several times into them trying to elude or manuver. One of the reasons I hate low altitude dogfights, that and also its almost impossible to recover from a stall and also impossible to bail out and survive.
Last edited by commorange; 07/05/11 10:31 PM.
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In the nearer term, if this is going to become a common thing on servers, I recommend putting a name to it, something derogatory to apply to people who do this. Something foolish sounding. Maybe something to do with squirrels. Everybody hates squirrels, right? Especially flying squirrels. Rats with wings, those are.
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We all know there are dicks out there that will exploit any option in the game to cheat mate.. sad isn't it. This is why I don't play M/P
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Well I said this would happen, but many refused to believe me, Ive seen it many times myself already, I guess we cant call it a sim if you can fly through Tree's, hell i dont think you can even do that in WOP. Game on the shelf for me at the moment its beyond fixing IMHO. makes me wonder if one can land in a forest and hide in there then take off and attack people?
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Yes, erm, ahem, dicks that do anything to win, like rigging races, or tricking poor pigeons. 
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Spoken like a true arcade gamer . I think it takes a lot away from the sim. It is afterall designed to be about realism with real world tactics. Errors in coding and exploits make me think of the pacman level that allowed a wall to be permeable. It's the designers responsibility to design what they are claiming to deliver. But their hands are way too full to deal with trees. They still can't figure out jitters and full screen mode. That's a shame. This game will be a masterpiece - in 2017
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Why you call it cheating?
Because it is. No amount of sugar coated B.S. will change that. Someone would have to be pretty lame to use an exploit like that. It's on the same level as 'glitching' in an FPS game. Lame, low skill, and shows the general moral character of the perpetrator (read as 'douche-bag').
Last edited by no_one_you_know; 07/06/11 02:48 AM.
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Perhaps if the weather was finished and installed we could cheat using clouds instead.
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I would not use this tactics by myself, just to make this clear. Also avoiding trees in EDs games... But I would take it with a smile if someone would escape me with flying through trees. I just don`t take this to seriously and it doesn`t matters to me if I have zero kills because of this.
MG is the only one who we should blame for making this happen. Speedtree (so awesome it is) is a performance killer and I wondered back then that they will use it for CoD. My only hope was that they do some magic to it. I was totaly shocked when I read that these are not collidable...and probably will not until everyone have super computers.
Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 07/06/11 12:09 PM.
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Perhaps if the weather was finished and installed we could cheat using clouds instead. That would be nice! Hopefully soon, too. I'd be the first one to dive into a cloud if things got "too hot" for me!
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No worries, EagleEye. I like the earlier suggestion by RS_Col to randomly make a small percentage of trees as hard objects. This would help preserve frame rates yet make flying through trees a more realistically hazardous escape tactic.
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More irrefutable proof that COD is an EPIC FAILURE. The most lenient arcade flyer doesn't permit flying through trees. What a joke.
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I am really looking forward to the NA release despite this failing. There is no one flying when I'm online.
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I am really looking forward to the NA release despite this failing. There is no one flying when I'm online. Roger that, Bish. The rest of the world has gone to bed by the time North America has washed the supper dishes and put the kids to bed!
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Even Freycinet must admit that any Tree must be insurmountable. 
Last edited by Aullido; 07/06/11 08:20 PM.
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[quote=EagleEye[GER Speedtree (so awesome it is) is a performance killer and I wondered back then that they will use it for CoD. My only hope was that they do some magic to it. I was totaly shocked when I read that these are not collidable...and probably will not until everyone have super computers. [/quote] If thats true all may well be lost 
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More irrefutable proof that COD is an EPIC FAILURE. The most lenient arcade flyer doesn't permit flying through trees. What a joke. I prefer "monumental",and "disastrous".. to "EPIC". Epic sounds like it was a major Hollywood production. Anyway, I still hold out hope that by some ENORMOUS FEAT, I wont say miracle because that might be a slight stretch. But I am not ready to scrap the game yet, cause I hope by some enormous feat the devs can fix this abortion of a game.
Last edited by commorange; 07/06/11 09:12 PM.
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I don't like comparing ROF to COD but all this talk about the trees killing CPUs to me is bollox, ROF has 1000s upon 1000s of trees with all having hit boxes with no slow down.
Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 07/06/11 09:19 PM.
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Even Freycinet must admit that any Tree must be insurmountable. LMAO! Now that was funny, good one Aullido.
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Even Freycinet must admit that any Tree must be insurmountable. LMAO! Now that was funny, good one Aullido. He tried to mount Tree?
There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
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More irrefutable proof that COD is an EPIC FAILURE. The most lenient arcade flyer doesn't permit flying through trees. What a joke. I prefer "monumental",and "disastrous".. to "EPIC". Epic sounds like it was a major Hollywood production. Anyway, I still hold out hope that by some ENORMOUS FEAT, I wont say miracle because that might be a slight stretch. But I am not ready to scrap the game yet, cause I hope by some enormous feat the devs can fix this abortion of a game. HMMM.... the trees in rof dont having swaying branches.... the trees in rof are not 3d they turn to face (Fine by my standard)... therefore MG unfortunately chose a bad but pretty software for the trees
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I don't like comparing ROF to COD but all this talk about the trees killing CPUs to me is bollox, ROF has 1000s upon 1000s of trees with all having hit boxes with no slow down. 2D trees tend to have that effect.
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yer...i guess i didn't think of that. Still, i would take ROFs trees over CODs any day
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Just been looking closer at CODs trees, if they just stopped the bloody swaying it would help with the flickers and dodgy shadows.
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I would make it my mission to hunt down the guy using trees as cover Use the tactic of waiting over his base and kill him before takeoff, hey..it's a tactic.Just like guys who only ever snipe on small maps in games like CoD etc. Find hunt down and knife.Then teabag.Can we teabag in Clod ?
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I would make it my mission to hunt down the guy using trees as cover Use the tactic of waiting over his base and kill him before takeoff, hey..it's a tactic.Just like guys who only ever snipe on small maps in games like CoD etc. Find hunt down and knife.Then teabag.Can we teabag in Clod ? If you were feeling both vindictive and bored simultaneously, it would be possible in a MP server to keep spawning aircraft (something large and fat like a Blenheim) and taxi them into the etherel trees surrounding the airfield. Then 'eject' and go get another one. Since aircraft are free in CoD it wouldn't take too long to create a protective fence made up of solid giant but invisible aircraft that only someone 'cruising for a tree bruising' could possibly bump into. It might be worth the hour setting it up just the once.
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I really do not understand why's they don't fix this ffs, Dcs have the same problem, it should be as simple as assigning a material to collidable ??? Unless I am missing a technical issue they are having with this simple fix !!!
Last edited by Phantom_Mark; 07/07/11 03:53 AM. Reason: Spellin
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i was thinking more along the lines of 'planting' those poles in the FMB up the trunks of random trees.Blenheims will work though
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Joined: Jan 2001
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classic example of eye candy trumping function, with no consideration to performance requirements.
it takes more effort to prototype and do the economics than to just code, sacrifice simulation and hope that hardware can compensate for poor development practice sometime in future.
What WW2 Fighter pilots say about Angels and Airspeed:
"Nice job of getting down to the basics - love your choice of a cover!" Col. Clarence 'Bud' Anderson
"I have enjoyed reading angels and airspeed, it should prove good reading for all interested in combat tactics and their application related to the fluid air environment and state of technology in WWII years. All the best as you make it available." - Col. Charles McGee - Tuskegee Airman
NEVER ENGAGE STUPID.
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OP
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They look so nice up close, nice bark and with branches that gently wave in the breeze. Plus the very nice real time lighting and shadows...  That's why we get the flickering shadows, the waving trees...how much of a FPS hit does that cause us? STOP THE MOVING TREES!!!
Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 07/07/11 12:40 PM.
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I really do not understand why's they don't fix this ffs, Dcs have the same problem, it should be as simple as assigning a material to collidable ??? Unless I am missing a technical issue they are having with this simple fix !!! For DCS (and EDs engine/s in general) I once read that AI vehicles would have a problem when trees are solid. Map size is another factor. You can be assured that they would make it collidable when they could. To use simple hitboxes (or what it is called) on trees isn`t a good solution me thinks. I don`t want to explode or crash when I hit the tip of a branch. Using hit boxes on forrests would be ok, though.
Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 07/07/11 12:51 PM.
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Jurrasic Member
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Why you call it cheating? If the game allow to fly trough trees why should one not do it? Isn`t MP gaming on public servers about to look aft advantages you can get to win against youre opposer? If you don`t follow him or at least to try to track him until he is free of trees it`s your problem, isn`t it? I don`t want to offend you, really, thats just my view.
If this was COD, as in call of duty, I could accept that, but i expect a more gamesmanship type attitude from Flight simmers. at least that's the way it used to be. Although looking at this forum lately, those days may be gone. No we are still here just most of us are strangely silent waiting to see what becomes of this sim. But there still are good flight simmers out there.
Ahh CLOD never in the history of Simming has so much been promised and so little given.
However I want to thank Team Fusion for keeping the Dream Alive.
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I'll be your Huckleberry Veteran
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I'll be your Huckleberry Veteran
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Well there is no aptitude test required to be a simmer, so you will get all kinds.
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Well there is no aptitude test required to be a simmer........ Except for critiquing screenshots..........
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They look so nice up close, nice bark and with branches that gently wave in the breeze. Plus the very nice real time lighting and shadows... That's why we get the flickering shadows, the waving trees...how much of a FPS hit does that cause us? STOP THE MOVING TREES!!! Are you sure you are right? - I am quite sure the tree movement is only rendered when close enough to see it.
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Yes frey that's prob right...but on my screen when they move about they look pixelated and odd. but even if only when down low its something we could save.
And if were tree hopping down low or taking off and landing? their moving about causing shadows to move about also? that must cost some FPS?
Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 07/07/11 02:51 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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I'll be your Huckleberry Veteran
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I'll be your Huckleberry Veteran
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Well there is no aptitude test required to be a simmer........ Except for critiquing screenshots.......... lol that's right I'd forgotten about that. exitstageleft(in my best Snagglepus voice)
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i just checked and to me the trees were moving and flickering when i was 400m above them causing the shadows to flicker too(need someone else to test, highest detail level for trees)
Lets hope we get a option to turn them off.
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I'll be your Huckleberry Veteran
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Lets hope we get a option to turn them off. Ah yes but be warned this maybe one step closer to making this sim a success, and that's not what you want, 'member 
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option to turn off the tree shadows or moving trees bisher
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I think either or both would be a good option to have, should help framerates drastically
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We don't know if they can implement it in the options, perhaps they could disable it for a while...
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sure I appreciate the mechanics of it all, and adding hit boxes to the trees is definitely not the way forward performance wise, simply categorising and setting a material flag as collidable (AI aside) is purely one of the most simple tasks going, I speak with 13 software titles to my credit, unless there really is some other issue which is being missed ??
Power is nothing without control
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Something doesn't quite feel right about the trees to me, though if its just CPU cycles then they should of optimized the sim better, its still not working across all the cores correctly. To me it seems the speed tree is not showing the same trees on everyone's screen not matter what the detail level, its rendering them in different places, so they cant have a hit box.(this is just a hunch). I take anything Luthier says with a pinch of salt now after he said "trust me on this" about the Spitgirl stuff. Anyway...lets see what Friday brings.
Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 07/08/11 06:53 AM.
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You (must) have a much greater view distance in flight sims then in all other games. I think the main problem is, what Luthier wrote, that they have to use a trick to place so many trees in a frame. That means for me, they could not "easily" apply these hit boxes without the performance hit. No flight sim (AFAIK), except CoD, is using SpeedTree for a reason...
Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 07/08/11 12:38 PM.
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are there really that many trees on screen?
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I'll be your Huckleberry Veteran
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A few 
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Well...i dont know about you Bisher, but i would take 10% of them trees if they made it look like this...  By furbs9999 at 2011-07-08 and made the trees crash-able(?)lol
Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 07/08/11 02:05 PM.
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Let me get this right.If I crash land on the pea green CoD landscape and hit trees,my aircraft will not break up?
Is this what you are saying?
You have technical know how,I have hardly any,but I thought I had bought a "life like" sim.
Not true then?Another dissapointement!
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I agree Furbs, totally agree. gwalch if you crash land onto the landscape your aircraft will break up, but not so with the trees, so you'd make it through the trees fine, but the land beneath would ruin your day.
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Thanks bisher.
Not toooooo bad then!!!!!!
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I agree Furbs, totally agree. gwalch if you crash land onto the landscape your aircraft will break up, but not so with the trees, so you'd make it through the trees fine, but the land beneath would ruin your day. Sure but there are players that are good at flying through the trees without hitting the ground beneath because to them its a "tactic" . If you could not crash into the ground it would mean you could actually "fly under the map" and emerge on the other side of the map to evade your pursuers. And there was a flight sim in the past where you could do that online. I wont give the name of it, but it used to be very popular.
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well since everyone is complaining hiding in the trees is bad I may just hide in a sheep herd. I don't believe they have hit boxes either.
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Two-speed Five-Blade Fan Senior Member
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Two-speed Five-Blade Fan Senior Member
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]You (must) have a much greater view distance in flight sims then in all other games. I think the main problem is, what Luthier wrote, that they have to use a trick to place so many trees in a frame. That means for me, they could not "easily" apply these hit boxes without the performance hit. No flight sim (AFAIK), except CoD, is using SpeedTree for a reason...
In DCS they tried, and then abandoned, speed tree - and they still don't have collidable trees. In RoF they use speed tree, and the trees are collidable - but there are less of them (and less activity generally). So...
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There is a choise between collide with trees and game speed! Your choise?
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75% less trees, better placed and collideable.
Edit-75% not 25% doh.
Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 07/10/11 03:11 PM.
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newbie Veteran
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newbie Veteran
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75 % less ? Man Europe would be the North African desert. 25% less might work but 75 would be overkill.
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]You (must) have a much greater view distance in flight sims then in all other games. I think the main problem is, what Luthier wrote, that they have to use a trick to place so many trees in a frame. That means for me, they could not "easily" apply these hit boxes without the performance hit. No flight sim (AFAIK), except CoD, is using SpeedTree for a reason...
In DCS they tried, and then abandoned, speed tree - and they still don't have collidable trees. In RoF they use speed tree, and the trees are collidable - but there are less of them (and less activity generally). So... I know they tried ST in DCS. They abandoned it because of performance issues. From, where do you have this information? RoF doesn`t use SpeedTree. There is no copyright information about nor is a SpeedTree *.dll in RoF folders.
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