homepage Forums Read Only Forums Read Only Forums Knights Over Europe (Read Only) Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!

OK Andrew, sounds good!

It's probably fair enough that tripes are more agile than most but if individual planes FMs do vary (as the hangar info suggests they do), and if they can be modded, then what's probably best is if all are reined in a bit. For example, it might be more realistic if max speeds were all cut back by a certain amount. Or if everybody's weight or momentum were increased by a given amount; maybe quite small, so AI would not start flying into the ground etc. Anyway, will be interesting to see what you can sniff out. I'm just sorry I can't help!

Let us know if you are able to replace the plane's text labels which show up in the Hangar, and we'll provide the correct designations eg the RFC "Dove" is a BE2e although some have taken it for the similar RE8.

Thanks again for your efforts on this!

I can't resist posting this slightly premature message, just to annoy the heck out of you

I've found the code to choose my opponents, but still need to do some work...

I chose a Scout to fly and an Eindecker1 and Otter as opponents. It was like a turkey shoot, way too easy. They were slow and un-manoeuvrable, in fact I could tail them with ease throughout most of the dogfight. Actually the Otter was so slow I was in constant danger of rear ending it It was still trying to get me, just very bad at it!

As unrealistic as the Dreidecker seems, and to some degree the Fisch.R, better to leave them as more challenging opponents (still not that hard). If we tweaked them you'd need to make our aircraft more sluggish to remove the advantage. It seems that whatever the human player gets, we still have the advantage in handling. I'm not too keen to tackle altering the Flight Model, as I'd really be stabbing in the dark without source code. Unless it was as simple as finding the Agility, Speed, Endurance [X/9] values as per the hangar view, that's as much as I might tweak.

It would be good if some enthusiasts here could rate each aircraft, and see if there is really much of a difference in handling, then compare it to the AI in control of the same aircraft (oh, that's right you only get four of them :p ).
Yes, that's almost certainly possible, as are the pilot names. While I'm still playing, you guys could draw up a list of the correct aircraft names (equal text chars or less), and I'll try to ammend that later. It'll keep you busy :p

P.S. Cas141, Ivor, Polovski, & everyone else, thanks for your general enthusiasm, otherwise I might not be bothered so much.

Brian, for some reason linking to my pics from here doesn't work, but if you copy the link and paste it in a new browser window it works (stupid free web server ).

Flyby1, I think your instincts are spot on. The DH2/Scout should be a better dogfighter than either the Eindecker or the seaplane, the DH2 was instrumental in bringing the "Fokker Scourge" to an end, and it was another "pusher", the FE2, also modelled in WOW, that may have brought down Max Immelman. Early days yet, the FM is probabbly a rather ambitious thing to be thinking about at this stage.

Will get to work on the planes list & post back here.

Thank YOU for your pioneering work on WoW, which is already significantly the better for it, already. No doubt there will be many limitations we'll have to put up with, but, like the man said, "oh, that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?".

Flyby, keep looking into the files pleeeeeease!

It's my impression that WoW is not yet available in a lot of countries, so you're early adopters, those of you who have it on your PC's.

Your efforts, Flyby, are very much appreaciated, even by someone like me who hasn't got my hands on WoW yet.

Flyby1, here's what I make of the WoW planes. I'm pretty certain this is accurate but would appreciate other's views, especially on the "taube", which is mostly an Avaitik B2 with some Albatros C3 features methinks. My major source on German planes is the definitive Putnam but mine is a 1970 edition so may have been updated by more recent research

I haven't checked all the data listed in the Hangar but there are one or two inaccuracies even on a quick run through. not sure how best to abbreviate if the existing name represents a limit for each!

German

Fisch - Albatros D III
(late model with D V rudder and offset radiator but definitely a DIII airframe regardless of most of the paintjobs being for the D V)
Fisch R - Albatros Dr 1
(inaccurately uses the Albatros D III fuselage, the real one(s) used the more rounded D V)
Trout - Pfalz D III
(late model, early had guns buried in fuselage, but this is not the later D IIIa which had a rounded tailplane)
Whiff -Seimens-Schukert D III
(later appearance with balanced, D IV-style ailerons - thanks to FlyXwire for spotting this)
Eindecker 1 - Fokker E I
Eindecker 3 - Fokker E IV
(both have ailerons, should have wing warping, my info is that the twin-gun E IV had 160HP engine not 100HP)
Fafnir - Gotha G V
Fenris - Zeppelin Staaken R VI
(has inaccurate gun positions in upper wings above engine nacelles, earlier 3-engined Reisenflugzeuge did have nacelle gun positions but not poking through the wing tops, and not this model)
Taube - Avaitik B II
(this seems to be a mish-mash - uses the gunner-in-rear cockpit layout of the Albatros C III, and tail is similar, but the unequal-span wings are distinctively Aviatik B-type and fuselage-side radiators were replaced by centre-section one on most if not all C-types)
Otter - (Hansa) Brandenburg W 29
Dreidecker - Fokker Dr 1
Hawk - Fokker D VII
Parasol - Fokker D VIII
(designation was E V at first)
Walfisch - L.F.G. Roland C II

Allied
Scout - D.H.2
Gunbus - F.E.2B
(should have a 160 HP engine not 120)
Silverfish - Nieuport 17
Silverfish R - Nieuport Triplane
Dove - B.E.2e
(some home defence ones MAY have had a Lewis in that position??)
Spade - SPAD S.7
(inaccurate Lewis on centre section)
Hunchback - S.E.5a
Fighter - Bristol F.2b
(centre section Lewis possible but rare)
Camel - Sopwith Camel
Dolphin - Sopwith Dolphin
Tripane - Sopwith Triplane
Fatman - Handley Page 0/400
(has fictional tail gun position)
Militaire - Breguet 14
(side windows of Br.14B2 bomber but flap-less & bomb-rack-less lower wing of Br.14A2 recce?)
Felix - Felixstowe F.2a
Corporal - Caproni Ca33

I am not 100% certain on this, but I think that the FMs and aircraft data are stored in tables
in the .dta files.

Good work on finding out the code for changing the enemy planes in instant action! Hopefully if the
aircraft performance data can be made more accurate, the earlier aircraft will make more challenging
AI opponents.
Anyway, really great work so far!

I am not much good at the technical side of modding but as soon as the .DTA files are deciphered, I'll
be ready to do some aircraft and ground object skinning, and possibly FM and general data modification
(if this data is in tables rather than in the .EXE)

Yep same here thanks Andrew for all your efforts great stuff. I think I put it down as a RE8 too Ivor_H, is is a BE2e then? Thanks for the excellent detailed list of planes too.

Great progress Andrew. The AI planes seem to be one way or the other. I can handle, just about , the two winged AI, but the dreidecker and triplane movements are too severe as they are.
I appreciate what you are saying re changing it, but i fear unless it is "quietened down", the community will find it hard to truly class this as a sim. As it is, the FM IMHO, is too way off.
I had a quick dogfight against Fokker triplane in Red Baron and that was a lot less skittish. I would have handled that OK if the sim had supported trackIR.
Better to have an easy victim (as those you mentioned ), and a good dreidecker fight, so that the kids and newbies can have some success, than it stay as it is and no luck at all against the triplanes- They look like wasps not planes
So, I hope you are right Drawde!!

That's my 2 cents as they say, but I am very much appreciative of your efforts, Andrew. Now that the rockets have gone I am having a ball with the Fiske ( sorry Ivor H, the Albatross
Thanks for that list by the way. It will be great when they have their right names, won't it?
(Thanks again Andrew)

This is always the best part...when someone pulls out the old Hex Editor and starts doing things to the exe the devs never thought would happen

Remember, EAW started like that. Look where they are now. You guys are off to a good start.

Yep Pov, the Dove is definetely a BE2e, the fin (more rounded on the 2e than the 2c and 2d) and rudder are distinctive. The 2e introduced the unequal-span, single bay layout later adopted by the RE8 so it's easy to mix them up. The BE fuselage is also fairly distinctive, especially the scoop in the rear cockpit coaming, and the lack of the "bent upward" look the RE8's rear fuselage had. I notice that WoW's BE2e actually seems to provide the duplicated flying controls that 2e models could have, just as well because they put the pilot in front in instant action, I think the BE2d was the only one where the observer normally occupied the back position.

The German Taube 2-seater is 90% Avaitik B II except for the crew positions (gun in back) and possibly also the rudder (not sure if the B II had the comma-shaped rudder, with triangular fin in front, adopted by the Aviatik C-types). Even the latter still had the observer in front until late production, with rails either side of the front pit to carry the gun, the only C-type to retain the old B-type layout. My first reaction was that it was an Alb C III but even if early ones had fuselage-side radiators - and i haven't seen that - nearly everything else is Avaitik. One of the few areas they didn't get quite right, but there are so many similar-looking German WW1 2-seaters that it's easy to mix them up.

OK thanks for the detail Ivor - very welcome.

DITTO, THANKS! Hoping that Gamestop preorder doesn't get lost in the hurricane!

I just breezed through the thread so if this is redundant, please forgive. WoW is out at the EB store where I work but they only got the XBox version in. I probably will experiment tonight and "preorder" the PC version to see if it shows up. However, I will also check the date of release for the PC version to see if it isn't delayed due to the conversion of the English to the English version... .

Also:

I believe that the 5 engine IV (or VI?) had forward engine nacel gunners manned by the engineers on each wing as well as above wing gunners poking through the upper wing. There were also 2 backseat gunners facing rearward and a pop down gunner position just aft the back seat (prelude to the tunnel gun?). It seems that every version of the Staaken had about 1 or 2 models made (except for the last rendition which had about 13 or so) maybe they were trying to do a V version? I'll have to dig up my old pictures at home...

If this sim could be modded, that would be way awesome. I know you can mod Mafia (from what I've read on the net) so maybe the data tools used for mafia will work on WoW?

Hi Whirlwind!

My Putnam book on German ww1 planes is a rather dated 1970 edition and shows earlier Gigants with 3 engines having gun positions in front or in the rear of the actual nacelle itself, depending on whether the version had pusher or tractor props. If you can check and confirm whether the R VI with its combined pusher and tractor nacelles had these rather draughty gun positions, poking out of the wings, that'd be helpful. They don't show in the photos or drawings in the book but as I say it's quite an old edition.

Re files, the chap who did the .dat file extractor for Mafia has looked at this and reckons the files have changed and that his tool won't work. We've so far found a payware one that extracts but the trial version only does 30 files a go. However, we're hopeful that when a dev forum comes online, or the "unofficial" Czech one, we can make some headway with Silver Wish, or otherwise make further progress.

The PC Version is out in California, USA. I got my copy sitting at EB. Will get it tonight. I am one of those wierdos who WILL play the missions to get the planes.

I have the XBOX version now and in one of the mission, and I got a big laugh out of this, I had to go take a photo of something found in a field by some troops. It was a crop circle!

****s and Giggles, some of it. Have fun with it first, then mod the heck out of it later. I am all for Modding, but I am having fun with the missions too.

LOL..........I saw that crop circle on the Somme map I believe, and it shows up very nicely!

I assume you got a good set of plates exposed of it Greg?

Just a little teaser pic...


Hope this graphic loads (picky server), otherwise copy and paste link into new browser window.
http://rain.prohosting.com/katipo/pics/wow.gif

Oh, and speaking of pics, don't know if anyone has tweaked, the in game screenshot key is [F11].

Woo nice Flyby1 ! That's a heafty tease too

Yeah oddly enough my default screenshot key is usually F11 so was taking screenshots using it without even thinking

Sorry guys, this question has probably already been asked but it’s going to take me a week to work my way through all these posts

WoW website shows a Nieuport XVII (N17) that looks nothing like a N17 (it was a biplane not a tripe) and what the hangar calls a Sopwith Dolphin is clearly an Se5/Se5a!!
I heard it was just a website error but from what I’m reading in here that dosen’t appear to be the case.

Now, as if that wasn’t bad enough I now see multiple references to an "Albatros Dr1"!?! Please tell me this is not supposed to be THE Dr1!!!

Is this simm based on any kind of historical aviation at all?? Or is it basically a work of fiction???

As an avid fan of the period I had every intention of going out and getting this simm but I’m having serious second thoughts. I might be better off with a copy of X-wing fighter.
And I was SO looking forward to jumping into the cockpit of a Brisfit. Is the rear gunner functional?

Bk
p.s. Re: Fe2 getting Max Immelman.
Well there were 7 of them Ivor, plus there is a good possibility that they didn’t get him at all and that it was the synchronisation on his machine gun which failed causing him to shoot off his own propeller.