Ah, and I see I've been labeled as one of those evil awful snapview crusaders just because I'm not a member of the Cult of Flanker. Amusing.

Its an artificial crutch designed to get by the limitations of computers. No matter how you nicely you make excuses for it.

PAPA DOC

Hi,

So are you saying that you can't properly fly and fight in Il-2 without the zoom view?

My point is that when someone says padlock is unrealistic because it can pick out a plane down low in the weeds with a good cammo skin... the zoom function does the exact same thing if you have been keeping tally. Without zoom you would lose sight an awfull lot.

Because it's there, I use the zoom function all the time.. sometimes too much when too close because I lose track of the actual closure speed... getting more used to it now though.

In Flanker 1.5(one of the best dogfighting sims) there was no zoom view... in Flanker 2.x you can zoom in but it is not instant in/out and is not good enough to use while dogfighting and Flanker 2.x is one of the best dogfighting sims taking 1.5 to a further level.

It's true... we need crutches to help simulate reality when viewing tiny objects through a monitor... zoom is one, padlock is one but padlock best simulates reality for smoothly tracking a target you have spotted and want to keep watching as you maneuver your housefan/jet to get your weapons to bear.

If padlock is taken out of the "real" options, so should the "zoom" function because other sims shave proven it is not required to make them good dogfighting sims. But then snapviewers would probably not like that because they would be losing tally much more.

Cheers

OK Papadoc, for you, I will explain it in smaller words:

Eyeball see better than monitor.

Yes, I will say that you can't properly fly and fight in IL-2 without either the zoom view or icons. To even approach realistic multi-aircraft combat you MUST be able to identify those aircraft at realistic ranges. When you can't tell the difference between a wingmate and an enemy at 1 kilometer, you can't fight worth a crap. Period. You guys might be too fixated on this 1-on-1 stuff to realize that the padlock needs to be capable and appropriate for an environment more complex than mere solo furballing.

Shepski: Have you TRIED using the narrow FOV with just snap views? It's next to useless, unless something just so happens to be really damned close to one of the 45 degree vectors. Also, due to the small FOV, it's not very useful for finding something, but for focusing on it after you've already seen it and padlocked on it.

And if y'all would take a moment out of working each other up into a froth, you might notice that I'm a fan of the concept of padlock, too. I just have stricter requirements for it than "well, it's good enough for dogfighting...". Go take this snapview-conspiracy-theory crap elsewhere, or at least aim that BS towards someone that it might be more appropriate to.

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-Mekhazzio Sssth'rhee, Magedragon at large

A Conspiracy...??!!??!!? Nah Sheep dont conspire. But there is no denying that what is bad about the padlock is in large part a reflection the developer buying into the sheeps arguments. Conspiracy indeed...simple pandering officer thats all it was.

In regards to your cute statement "eyeball see better than monitor"...yup and because of that you need the crutch that zoom brings. If you like I can use small words as well...would that help...?

Zoom, crutch. How's that...??

You dont know Flanker so its best if you dont comment...I do know Falcon 4. I wont get into what you seem to want another stupid silly ass debate about which is better. I never ever liked those dumbase debates and still dont..I have always been one of those guys who couldnt figure out why it was so hard to love more than one women.

PAPA DOC

Dont take it personally Tailspin at all. What I am saying is the same thing I have been saying all this time, I dont want to play multiplayer...I am upset that padlock was comprimised to placate and pander to a vanishingly small group of iL-2 buyers who only use snapviews and whose entire life depends on gratification of multiplayer.

1.8 miles padlock engagement sop to snapviewers who play online for example...or the lack of attitude cues more sop towards snapviewers.

Padlock should be built to the standards of those who love it as a view system. Then if those who use snapviews dont like it then they can choose to not fly with them in multiplayer. Simple solution to the multiplay problem...except that the developers knew that the crowd would be awfully small if that was done.

PAPA DOC

Oh gee sorry let me lift you out of that category into the other category I have for people like you....there plop.

PAPA DOC

The issue is still simple.
This is not about which is *better* or more *realistic*.
It is about a padlock which is not satisfactory - which is the original topic of discussion.
Which of the two available viewing/tracking options is superior/realistic/unrealistic is not/never was an issue in the initial observation - just that padlock needs to be improved.

Thank-you!



[This message has been edited by Teapot (edited 02-01-2002).]

hehe You would think that this bit would be easy to understand wouldnt you.

PAPA DOC

The vagaries of message boards, like the ebb and flow of the stock market, defies logic. It is much more entertaining late night reading though ... hehe.