Sergio I did understand all your posts without a problem. But I asked because I have the same suspection as Nattulv. The way you argument here makes me feel indifferent. I am not from Finnland nor have I ever been there, but what you brought up here remembers me of the official german way of dealing with WW2: "In WW2 all germans were bad, evil nazis and all others associated with them, too." With this sick and plain wrong attitude of many people we have to deal here and even being interested in this time is suspicious and you are called Neo-Nazi.
Some of your topics are - excuse the harsh way of expressing it, but english isnīt my native language - a mixture of deepest cold war propaganda and many false conclusions based upon personal feelings about this certain period of time.
Please donīt take this as a flame!

I actually have forgotten what the actual point of this thread was after it strayed away from why FAF swastika is not included in the game

Sergio,
The history is usually written by the victors and smaller countries are not regarded very significant. I think that is the reason why many things concerning Finland and WW2 are not very well known. Many Finns also have a very enthusiastic attitude (often too much "pride") of their of history. That makes us very eager to set right statements and assumptions we see incorrect

It has been a nice informative thread so far.. lets not make it a flame war.

I will recheck some of my statements and write later another post that has the facts as I see them.

I still disagree with Finns attacking Leningrad and Germany starting Barbarossa from Finish territory.

Btw, that FAF 109 above Leningrad was in 1943 or 44... after the siege had already been broken. FAF planes were actually FORBIDDEN to fly over heavily AA-protected VVS bases and e.g. Leningrad.

Where exactly is that Beloostrov? Northern suburb od Leningrad?

Howabout Petrozavodsk? Not the same city as Petroskoi?


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BlauKreuz
CO, Lentolaivue 34

C'mon, please stop with all this stuff about "good" and "bad" Germans.
Germans were completaly crazy about your furer and national-sozialism. Otherwise they wouldn't kill so many civilian people just because of their nationality.
Germans, not Russians, made this war so deadly and savage.
Wermaht was not SS, but murdered a lot of prisoners of war. What about the order to kill all captive red army jews and komissars?


About finns:

22.06.41 Finland was a Nazi ally.
More than 1,000,000 people died in Leningrad during the siege.

What else do you need to excuse?

That's it.

Originally posted by Nikolaus:
Germans were completaly crazy about your furer and national-sozialism. Otherwise they wouldn't kill so many civilian people just because of their nationality.

Uhh.. that is quite a flame bait ... is that also why Soviet partisans attacked civilian villages in Finland?? ..and is that why VVS bombed purely civilian targets in Finish cities??

Your argument does not seem too sound here


About finns:
22.06.41 Finland was a Nazi ally.

And until that time USSR was a Nazi ally... so?


More than 1,000,000 people died in Leningrad during the siege.

What else do you need to excuse?


To excuse exactly what concerning Finns???

Lets take the discussion back to facts with some sources to back them up ok?


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BlauKreuz
CO, Lentolaivue 34

I would never say that russians were, are and will be the angels
I don't try to exuse, you do

Nikolaus, were all the soldiers of the USSR Commies? Don't think so. Lets keep to the facts and not your propaganda history, OK.

Oh yes, Russian is a bad word, please use another as the USSR was composed of other citizens other than only people from the Russian Republic.

For me it's no problem using the word Russian. Becouse this nation was the biggest and key nation of the USSR along with Belorussians and Ukranians (which were also were taking as Russians before 1917).
Obviously nobody will consider the USSR history without Russia and vise versa.

Nikolaus - why so aggressive? Isnīt it possible to discuss such a matter civilized as adults? I donīt see any historic evidence for your assumption. Why was the Gestapo spying for opponents within Germany, why were there so many Non-Jews or Sinti starving in concentration camps? Not all germans were eager to fight for the "Corporal in Berlin". Or did you ever read about enthusiasm when the war started as in 1914? I didnīt.

BTW your point of view is influenced by the way history is told in your country. So is mine. There is a sentence by a german historian (Schopenhauer) who said:
"History is divided into three stages. At first itīs completely rejected, then itīs being ignored and at last itīs widely accepted as most possible way things went." Germany today is in stage two - ignore the timeframe 1933-45 and everything will be fine.

I'm not sure you're right.
Keeping in mind two world wars started from Germany I think it's very useful and good for Germans to have such an inferiority complex because of their history.
Now we can find so many young nazists in Eastern Germany just because of this ignoring, I guess.

Nikolaus, you missed the post in which some citizens of the former USSR objected to being called Russian, in fact were mighty indignant. So the rumor is true, "Russians" are snotty (BIG egos). Yes and where was the mighty SU leadership from during the GPW, not the Republic of Russia.
cheers