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#2501840 - 04/25/08 04:10 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: SkullBiscuit]
20mm Offline

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Lifer

Registered: 01/03/01
Loc: Tucson AZ
lol, now we're talking.
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#2501969 - 04/25/08 06:51 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: 20mm]
Dart Offline
Aviation & Air Combat Co-Editor
Senior Member

Registered: 09/02/01
Loc: Morrow, GA USA
 Quote:
You buy a newspaper, not vote for it, and it can't take life and death decisions that will directly affect you.


Spanish-American war, anyone?

\:\)

What's funny is that an analyst that is in contact with the Pentagon and "walks their line" is somehow an abomination, but Wesley Clarke, a retired General and formal Democrat Presidential Candidate is somehow NOT partisan or unbiased when he is hired as a "military consultant" on news channels - and is rarely identified with his political biases - to speak about Iraq.

That the government would give a free pass in an information war to the media (which is fundamentally biased against the Bush administration and the opportunities for Democracy in Iraq) is both irrationally naive and somewhat dangerous.
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The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com


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#2501977 - 04/25/08 07:02 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: Dart]
Razorback Offline
Lifer

Registered: 11/03/99
Loc: Member # 118
*slow clap*

*builds into a roar*
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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws... encourage... homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."-Jefferson

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#2501981 - 04/25/08 07:06 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: Dart]
Snapdad2112 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/00
Believing that 'the media' is 'fundamentally biased against the Bush administration' is both irrationally naive and somewhat dangerous. Simply looking at the record anyone can see that this statement is inherently false. Just look where we are today to see that the drumbeat to war was fostered and promoted by 'the media'. This was certainly exacerbated by these 'military analysts'... Take a good look at this study and explain, if you can, why you believe what you do. At any rate...

Here are some questions that should be asked regarding this 'military analyst' situation. We can already see that 'the media' is virtually ignoring it, thereby negating your assertion about 'fundamental bias'.

 Quote:
Q. The media reform group, Free Press, has put out a video on the lack of press coverage and begun a petition drive “calling on Congress to investigate the military pundits and their ties to the Bush administration, defense contractors and our national news media.” A first, most logical reporter’s inquiry could go to Congressional leaders and leaders of any number of committees that could claim jurisdiction over unethical, illegal activities: Will they investigate?

Q. What about the presidential candidates? Are they satisfied with a system that permits retired military leaders to work the Pentagon as lobbyists for corporations and serve as propagandists at the same time? Isn’t something wrong with both parts of that equation? What do McCain, Clinton and Obama have to say about it?

Q. As David Barstow pointed out in an online Q&A on April 21, “It is not legal for the U.S. government to direct psychological operations or propaganda against the American people.” What view do First Amendment and constitutional attorneys have? At some point, propaganda becomes illegal. Did this program cross that point? Was it unethical, illegal or both? Or neither?

Q. In 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld created what was called the Office of Strategic Influence, an international propaganda operation. After complaints and ridicule when news of it broke, Rumsfeld said the office had closed down. Later he said the program had continued, with only the name abolished. Does that program still exist or not?

Questions for the Times itself, perhaps for a follow-up story or stories:

Q. Why did the Times wait so long? (Two years to get FOIA responses?) Why didn’t it report the story earlier, even if only some of the facts were known? Getting big stories and holding them for very long periods of time has become a pattern at the Times and other news organizations. Their rationale, often, is that the reporting hasn’t been completed. Is reporting ever completed?

Q. The Times story states that “most of the analysts [the retired generals] have ties to military contractors vested in the very war policies they are asked to assess on air.” Were there instances when it looks as though these retired military leaders or their business associates benefited financially from promoting the Pentagon-White House line? Anything that could be construed as a pay-off? Barstow spent a long time in his reporting and may have some answers to this question; if so, why not write them up?



Good questions. Let's hope they get asked and/or answered by our 'free press', hmm?


Edited by Snapdad2112 (04/25/08 07:11 PM)

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#2501988 - 04/25/08 07:21 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: Snapdad2112]
Colt40Five Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Loc: Heart of Dixie
_________________________
"Let me control a peoples currency and I care not who makes their laws." ~Meyer Nathaniel Rothschild

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#2501992 - 04/25/08 07:27 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: Snapdad2112]
Dart Offline
Aviation & Air Combat Co-Editor
Senior Member

Registered: 09/02/01
Loc: Morrow, GA USA
 Quote:
Needless to say, relying on Saddam Hussein, Jacques Chirac, and Kofi Annan to be the almost exclusive face of the anti-war movement is even worse than ignoring it. As the authors say blandly, "It is well known that source credibility is central to the persuasiveness of communication, political or otherwise. And while many Americans were skeptical of the Bush administration's motivations for a confrontation with Iraq, we would surmise that even greater skepticism infused Americans' perceptions of Saddam Hussein's arguments about why war was a bad idea." Seems a safe surmise to me.


Shall we look at the voting in the Congress and Senate from Democrats at the time?

Professor Churchill, for example, got covered pretty well, and his message was put out by the press.

Cindy Sheehan got well over fifteen minutes of fame - until she took on Democrats. From media darling even while standing next to Chavez and calling the USA an "evil empire," (after which Howard Dean remarked that "we need more Cindy Sheehans") to persona non grata in a nanosecond when she encompassed her sights to include Speaker Pelosi and Senator Clinton.

Leading up the Iraq war, Saddam Hussein's regime was defended quite thoroughly by the press, IMHO, and a great attempt to vindicate his regime has been a steady goal of the media. It is amazing how any hardship the Iraq people have endured, including during his reign, is the USA's fault, and only the USA's fault in the media.

From NPR playing REM's It's the end of the world as we know it as bumper music in 2000 when the Supreme Court ended Al Gore's bid to steal the election on, the media has been biased against the Bush administration.
_________________________
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#2502007 - 04/25/08 07:45 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: Dart]
Snapdad2112 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/00
Look at the numbers, Dart. There's been analysis on the issue ad-nauseum. It appears as though you're merely cherry picking little tid bits to buttress your outlandish, weak argument. But then again, it's your humble opinion, which I can respect, but fail to see.

 Quote:
Leading up the Iraq war, Saddam Hussein's regime was defended quite thoroughly by the press, IMHO, and a great attempt to vindicate his regime has been a steady goal of the media. It is amazing how any hardship the Iraq people have endured, including during his reign, is the USA's fault, and only the USA's fault in the media.


You'll have to provide sources on this claim of yours.

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#2502042 - 04/25/08 08:44 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: Dart]
SkullBiscuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/02
Loc: USA
 Originally Posted By: Dart

What's funny is that an analyst that is in contact with the Pentagon and "walks their line" is somehow an abomination, but Wesley Clarke, a retired General and formal Democrat Presidential Candidate is somehow NOT partisan or unbiased when he is hired as a "military consultant" on news channels - and is rarely identified with his political biases - to speak about Iraq.


No doubt that Clark has a political point of view --- Democratic --- but where is the tie between his political commentary and continued access to inside information along with no bid contract early information?

We all have bias both conscious and unconscious. These "analysts" weren't merely guys who were watching the news, calling up their friends, perhaps in and out of uniform, and then putting forth an opinion while being paid a small contractual TV appearance fee; it was stated in the article that at least one of these guys admitted that his continuing access to these insider briefings was predicated on not departing from the talking points. Unless Clark is in a similar situation with inside information, conformity to the story; in order to obtain inside information for his defense contractor clients; well we have completely different conditions here.

SB

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#2502052 - 04/25/08 09:07 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: SkullBiscuit]
Rick.50cal Offline
FS2004 / FSX Forum Moderator
Lifer

Registered: 10/25/99
 Originally Posted By: SkullBiscuit

Are we now entering into metaphysics?


No, entering Metalica!
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Rick.50cal

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#2502057 - 04/25/08 09:14 PM Re: "Independent military analysis" by TV talking heads - quite a story brewing up here... [Re: Rick.50cal]
SkullBiscuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/02
Loc: USA
 Originally Posted By: Rick.50cal
 Originally Posted By: SkullBiscuit

Are we now entering into metaphysics?


No, entering Metalica!


Yes, it appears that we have departed from recognizing that these were bad boys with clear conflicts of interests and the administration wants to influence popular opinion through the use of surrogates..

...and we're moving into.....into.....time for head banging music! \:D

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