How realistic is the flight model in Wings Over Israel? Are accelerated stalls modelled, and is a video available demonstrating them? Someone in another sub-forum at SimHQ called this a realistic simulator, but I've always heard the Wings series described as "casual." A few Youtube videos later, I'm inclined to agree.

Unfortunately, I have no intention of buying Wings Over Israel even if the consensus is that the flight model is very realistic and the stalls are the best in the market. Third Wire has had the terrible judgment to choose not to put out a playable demonstration. I do not buy a "pig in a poke." Still, it's a terrible shame, since I'm so enamored of the Israel theater.

It's a mistake not to get WOI. It's the best of the series, very playable, challenging and a lot of fun.

Erm, given your comments that I've put in bold I can't help but immediately think: What is the point of your question in the first place?

Benny, have you actually flown WOI? I mean given your troubles with joysticks and all...

TK's games are described as casual because you can't flick every switch in the cockpit like in Falcon4 or even like in LOMAC which is again a "light sim" comparing to Falcon4.
I believe TK chooses to call it "ligh" just to get rid of the rivet counters, switch counters and all other counters.
WOI again brought the whole series to another level, and the sim can hardly be called light/casual now in whatever aspect, but yes you still can't flick every switch in the cockpit or relief yourself in the relief tube.
As for general FM's they feel much better than with some very popular hard core sims where planes fly like cars in Need For Speed series, I would say the FM's in WOI are on par with the LOMAC's Su-25T.

Also I do not understand the approach/attitude in the first post, B.Moore. You basically decided it was cr@p looking at few youtube videos(BTW, ROFL that's pretty retarded), and no matter what we say you are not interested. So why to fu** do you bother to ask then? Or is it another case of childish my sim rox, your sim sux trolling?

Actually, I'm curious as to whether my initial impression (that is, of arcade no-stall flight models) from the films was wrong. Since you imply that Wings Over Israel has complex stalls modelled, I'll now be able to concentrate my ire on the lack of a playable demonstration. Why did I want to know, if I won't buy it because of the lack of the demo? Well, I'm curious, of course. I like to keep a mental tally of "serious" simulations, with "serious" meaning that they take a decent stab at a complex flight model.

Anyway, it was a seriously dumb move of Third Wire to decide not to release a playable demonstration. Flight simulation is already a niche genre; why alienate more customers by refusing to provide a playable demonstration, demanding that they purchase sight-unseen? So does anyone have a video showing off the stalls?

If you only bought games that had playable demos your gaming collection would be pretty damn thin.

Sounds to me like you're just looking to find things wrong with this game and give yourself plenty of reasons to not buy it.

I don't own it (yet) but I own the other Third Wire games so I pretty much know what to expect. I know it's not going to be Falcon 4 (which is good, I don't like study sims anyway).

Calling the lack of a demo a "seriously dumb move" is beyond exaggeration. Besides, the game is selling for $30, not $40, not $50.

But, if you like to complain (and it sorta sounds like you do) the $30 might be a worthwhile investment.

Actually, I've been gaming for about eighteen years and have never bought a game that didn't have a playable demo. Most games do. Contrary to what you think, the omission of one does put off a lot of potential customers. Not everyone has too much money and a penchant for jumping into a proverbial pool without checking the depth.

So that's a "no" about anyone having a link to a film demonstrating the stalls? That's too bad. I was hoping to be proven wrong with one, but I suppose it doesn't really matter considering that Third Wire expects me to buy their product on hype alone (to be fair to Third Wire, there's not much of that, either).

I understand your feelings about demos, but on the other hand that's where forums like this and others can help.

Have you asked at the Thirwird forums? There may be a very good reason why a demo has never been produced.

Benny, are you just gently or rather outright trolling? Won't work here: we are to old for that.

I would agree with Brain32: Tk's FM's are VERY good. They are table based, but sophisticated.
Yes, there are stalls, I had some difficulty to recover from them though (stalls in Phantom are known to be vicious), while in Lockon I can easily recover.

In "hard" mode this sim is quite "harder" than the so-called hard-core sims, for the very simple reason that a FBW Falcon was supposed to fly easier than a Phantom or Mirage in the first place. I never understood why people call the advanced avionics of the Viper "hardcore" since they were entirely meant to make life for the pilot easier?

I am now working on a campaign movie, where I will presumably fly the Kfir. Since I stalled in it before, it might happen in the movie, I'll keep you posted when it does.