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#2255535 - 07/10/07 08:19 PM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: Weird_Crapolla]
iron mike Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Loc: Maryland, USA
Yeah, I've had no problems with Andy's other stuff. I've got his BoB on my hard drive now.


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#2255638 - 07/10/07 11:05 PM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: iron mike]
VonBeerhofen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/02
Loc: Zandvoort, N-H, Netherlands
Hi Mike,

I don't think BoB is really a changed campaign with moved targets or frontlines. That's what makes an enormous difference and why new continents are so much harder to create. There may be a large gap inbetween the two also in which new discoveries were made. New discoveries appear almost on a monthly basis.

VBH


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#2255750 - 07/11/07 01:52 AM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: VonBeerhofen]
iron mike Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Loc: Maryland, USA
I think the changes, and, improvements to EAW are the reason I prefer it to the other flight sims I have bought then put on the shelf never to be run again. Also, BoB is the subject that caught my eye with EAW in the first place. I've got most of the BoB mods available.



from "MEN OF THE RAF", Portraits by Sir William Rothenstein, Ofxord University Press, London 1942. My dad found this little gem for me when I was about 10, he new I was keenly interested in the Battle of Britain.

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#2255779 - 07/11/07 02:25 AM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: iron mike]
Knegel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/01
Hi Mike,

on my side the "NTNPICGR.WSP" cause the trouble, could you please remove this file from your poland1939, maybe its the same reason for you.

Greetings,

Knegel
_________________________
1st engined flight by Richard Pearse, Waitohi, New Zealand, March 31, 1902. Karl Jatho, 1st flight, 18.August 1903, Hannover-Vahrenheide, real controlled flights.
The Wrights, 1st flight, 17. December 1903. They wasnt the 1st, but still claim this!

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#2255855 - 07/11/07 04:47 AM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: Knegel]
iron mike Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Loc: Maryland, USA
For Com Greg Keene and Knegel, moving the NTNPICGR.WSP file out of the EAW directory gives me a German campaign. I've also put the Savedata folder into the mix too. I'm not sure what the default missions do, except maybe they are for individual missions.

The first misson in a BF 109-d spot was a bit weird, it was an intercept against a group of B17s listed as Invalids. I shot one down too. I've also noticed several Polish units are based at Manston etc. Well we can't have it all, can we? Anyway I'll fly it a bit and see what else happens. Danke, merci, and thank you all. Mike Out.

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#2256034 - 07/11/07 12:16 PM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: iron mike]
VonBeerhofen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/02
Loc: Zandvoort, N-H, Netherlands
Hi Mike,

The Default**.MSN setup the single mission of each slot and is used to store you parameterscreen selection so next time you fly that slot you will get the same parameters, amongst other things.
Since it holds the current airbase and target, as well as support groups and a few other things you may understand that when the parameterscreen would point to off the map targets or airfields, or unavailable planeslots for the set year, the game will crash.
The crash is not consistent, it can happen at startup but sometimes happens when you tick a particular planeselection side or in this selection when you pick a particular plane.
With all British bases/targets out of commision the default files will try to select a hardcoded British target when you fly Axis and try to set an Allied airfield when flying for the Allies.
Obviously none will be found, hence problems.
The removal of the NTNPICGR.WSP from the install will result in it's CDF version taking over. It's just an emblem picture and has no influence on campaigns.
With unedited campaignfiles the CTD and/or mission will be random and since 1/2 of the bases/targets are missing there's also 1/2 a chance for a CTD or some other weird behaviour. The behaviour will depend on how the campaign engine is programmed. So the removal of this file is no proof whatsoever that it influences the campaign. Proof is only when with multiple tries the same thing happens over and over and again.
You could remove 10 different .WSP's and with each start of the campaign suffer the same or a different weird problem. This only proofs that the campaign is trying to set something up which isn't valid and not because of a removed .WSP.
Understanding what a .WSP does and how it works is the only clue to it's nature and I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that this file has no influence whatsoever on plane or target selection, mission or anyother parameter linked with campaigns and or missions.
The campaign files sets target/airfield/plane priorities and when it has the values of erased British airfields or targets still in them then there will be trouble, just as much as when the single missions set impossible targets/airbases or planes.
The only cure is to redirect the campaignfiles to use targets/airfields which are available, simmilar as the Default**.MSN do for the single missions.
I hate to say this but hardly any campaign is a truely worked out one and I've never seen one which really worked. It's simply impossible since there is hardly any knowledge on how to edit them and as to how the parameters work and/or interact with other files.
On top of that, no one knew how to create all 30 frontlines or what their effect was on campaigns or single missions, so almost every camapign uses the default lines which were only put into a different order. This explains why some of them show enemy targets/airfield in the middle of friendly territory. When you understand that each target has a side designation and year of appearance you may also understand that when frontlines are randomly reordered and targets are moved within the playing field these designations no longer are correct.
New campaigns are simply a hoax in a way, not an intentional one but one caused by lack of editing knowledge. Only campaigns which don't change the data can be fully functional, one of the reasons that campaignmakers didn't move targets or frontlines but simply put a new terrain underneath which more or less reflected the theatre. Add a few new skins, a few specific objects, twiddle a bit with frontlines and it looks realistic enough to be believed and it might even work too. This goes without a doubt for every campaign and the best ones are the ones which can use all 308 targets without moving them or tampering with default frontlines, since these are the ones which really work still. Ofcourse they still work, they're nothing more but a stock campaign with a few new planes, a bit of changed mission text, pilotnames, and new tileset and map. Add to this a few new targetnames and the illusion is perfect.
Sorry for shattering everyone's dreams, but it's the sad truth. We, and not even I, know how to truely edit campaigns so they will work and I challenge every one to say inhere that he or she does have full control and knows what he or she is doing and what the outcome will be.
Do you think that any one would notice the difference between moved targets/airfields/frontlines and an unchanged campaign which only selects a squadron at a certain base, selecting certain targets for you? If you move them doesn't that effectively influence the campaign and have you heard of anyone checking the campaign missions against reality, besides me?
Moving them however has ill side effects and cause the campaign files to no longer understand, basically rewriting the campaign would mean you would hardly have to move targets/frontlines/airfields at all, you'd simply change their role in the campaign files and you effectively accomplish the same thing as when you move all the other stuff around, but the big difference is that the last option would really work and the way we have to do it now doesn't.
Still slow progress is being made and who cares anyway if the illusion gives you hundreds of hours of fun? We now can draw realistic frontlines, move targets at will, change the .MSN files and we even got a few campaigns working online too, and that's what may eventually lead to more understanding and truely working and realistic campaigns.
Untill then you'll have to fly single missions, as those at least are fully understood. Or better yet, come fly with us online and each mission you fly will be a totally new experience, \:\)

VonBeerhofen

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#2256991 - 07/12/07 09:37 AM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: VonBeerhofen]
Pobs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/10/01
Loc: North Wales, UK
Mike,

In SAW we rebuilt the world from scratch and that included the campaign files which work pretty well, but as VB says the campaign system is still a pretty black art in EAW. I am still flying Andy's Poland and that works fine, so it would appear the problems developed in Knug's version... so if you want to fly Poland perhaps you should just use Andy's version for now ?...


cheers,



Pobs

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#2257884 - 07/13/07 12:26 PM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: Pobs]
Baron Von Martin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/03
Loc: Peenemuende, MB.
Hello,

I have had no troubles with the original Poland for EAW.

I tried Knug's Russian Winter Air War and got immediate ctd's.

Apparently Shreckie had a fix, I seeme to recall he e-mailed me the fix, but it did not work.

Knug??? What's up with your add ons?

S!

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#2258101 - 07/13/07 05:24 PM Re: CTD Poland 39 [Re: Baron Von Martin]
iron mike Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Loc: Maryland, USA
BvM, Pobs, I've got anomalous things going on in Poland v1.3, I think that your suggestions about v1.2 are good advice. I can get it to run now but airfields and missions are wierd. Same thing about Kungs Russia stuff too.
Hey Pobs, the I-15s are a royal pain in a monoplane. I've better luck with the Fiat, but don't get many easy kills. With only two little mgs it doesn't do much damage, I'm not a "sure shot shooting...".

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