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#182003 - 02/27/04 12:51 PM
F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/02/01
Loc: Glasgow, Scotland
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Just saw this on rec.aviation.military
"The New Air Superiority Benchmark
Thursday the 19th of February 2004 will mark the day when the undisputed king of air superiority had to surrender its thirty-year crown to a newcomer. It happened over the skies of Windermere, in the scenic English Lake District. Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters were on the first RAF formation training flight from Warton Aerodrome when they were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW, probably the most formidable and experienced combat unit in the European theatre. The Typhoon crew did not seem to be intimidated and with two rapid counters ended up on the F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one, who was in full afterburner, wings rocking and wondering what had happened.
It is fair to expect that the most surprised by this first encounter result would be the F15 crew, used to dominate the skies since the mid-seventies and with an exchange ratio record of 101 wins to zero losses, and a bunch of die-hard Eurofighter critics without much knowledge of the new fighter air combat capabilities. It is understandable if the RAF rookies would also show their surprise at the outcome, as one does not expect to win an air engagement on the first training sortie with a brand new machine against one of the best combat units in the world, riding what up to now has been the best fighter in history.
But that is history now!
Those definitely not surprised by what the events over the Lake District skies signify are the top echelon in the Air Combat Command, the Chief of Staff and the RAND Corp. analysts and boffins. They have been saying for years that the F-15 is no match to the new generation of European fighters and even to the Su-35 Flanker. They know what they say: their operational analyses studies and other simulated evaluations-as indeed have ours, both at the industry and government level-have shown that the F-15 is unable to gain air superiority against Eurofighter Typhoon. Now they have the first real indication that their worries were not unjustified and that the F/A-22 was the right choice, if they want to maintain the air superiority also in the future."
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#182004 - 02/27/04 01:09 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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There's a lot more to it than this oversimplified interpretation, and it is naive to reach any conclusions based on this one encounter. "I'd rather face an average pilot in a great airplane than a great pilot in an average airplane" - Brigadier General Charles E. "Chuck" Yeager, USAF Cheers! Rick...
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#182005 - 02/27/04 01:13 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/29/01
Loc: South East Asia
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Apparently they were Rookie pilots Raven, and normally I'd say that makes them Average, but they were RAF and the RAF doesnt do "average". :p
Cheers
_________________________
"One thing puzzles me Baldrick, how did you manage to get so much custard out of such a small cat?"
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#182006 - 02/27/04 01:19 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/00
Loc: Sunny Sussex
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I know where this is going...IBTL!
Heeheehee. Makes good reading though, but the Sea Harrier guys may claim they were there first...
_________________________
Foot down, head down...
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#182007 - 02/27/04 01:21 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Member
Registered: 12/24/01
Loc: Earth
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Also note: It sounds like a close in dogfight scenario. The F15 from the outset was designed with BVR in mind, speed and agility there if the enemy gets too close. However, I have no doubt the Eurofighter could get on an F15s tail with ease, assuming the Typhoon had a remotely competant pilot. (Would they risk such an aircraft with the guy who couldn't fly a model let alone a plane? ) The real showdown will be F22 vs Eurofighter.
_________________________
"Suicide is man's way of telling God, 'You can't fire me, I quit.'"
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#182008 - 02/27/04 01:24 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Apparently they were Rookie pilots Raven, and normally I'd say that makes them Average, but they were RAF and the RAF doesnt do "average". Actually, I was implying that they might be great pilots! Cheers! Rick...
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#182009 - 02/27/04 01:33 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Member
Registered: 07/07/01
Loc: McConnell AFB, Kansas
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Hmm, lets see. What were the loads for each acft? Clean?? Tanks? Just know that the F-15E does have CFTs and the weight is higher.
As was said, this is a lame report jumping to conclusions over one engagement. It's not being said what the set-ups were or restrictions placed upon who, etc...
Yea, IBTL. :rolleyes:
Storm
_________________________
Winning over hearts and minds, one refueling at a time.
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#182010 - 02/27/04 01:37 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/00
Loc: Sunny Sussex
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I reckon this will be locked by 1500 GMT!!! Place your bets! (This is part of my clever lock-prevention policy) Keep it level-headed and rational discussion only, guys!
_________________________
Foot down, head down...
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#182011 - 02/27/04 01:39 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Member
Registered: 09/28/01
Loc: Australia
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Time and progress being what they are, the F-15 will have to lower its colours one day and it may not be to another US-built aircraft.
_________________________
"Ertrage die Clowns!"
Joachim Fest
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#182012 - 02/27/04 01:41 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Member
Registered: 09/28/01
Loc: Australia
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Originally posted by Daveyraveygravey: I reckon this will be locked by 1500 GMT!!! Place your bets! (This is part of my clever lock-prevention policy) Keep it level-headed and rational discussion only, guys! You're on!
_________________________
"Ertrage die Clowns!"
Joachim Fest
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#182014 - 02/27/04 02:16 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Member
Registered: 08/10/01
Loc: Arizona
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what's the big surprise here, the 15 has been operational for how long? and as was stated before, it's primarily a BVR fighter, I would fully expect the Typhoon to whip up on it within guns range. "Now they have the first real indication that their worries were not unjustified and that the F/A-22 was the right choice, if they want to maintain the air superiority also in the future." yeah, because we planned on flying the 15 forever the that pesky Typhoon came along and messed it all up!
_________________________
Full fathom five, thy father lies
Harold Kahler, O4 USAF F-105D, Lincoln NE, MIA 6/14/69 LAOS GBNF
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#182015 - 02/27/04 02:20 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Member
Registered: 05/09/00
Loc: Zutphen, NL / ShangHai, China
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Also, with the recent cancellation of the Comanche in mind, rumors about which must've been there, it's very possible that the F-15 crew were told to loose so the F-22 would be safe(r) from cancellation.
OTOH, the F-15 is a design that's by now almost 35 years old. It's only logical that the EuroFighter - first designed 15 years ago or so - is capable of fighting 35-year old aircraft.
_________________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
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#182016 - 02/27/04 02:32 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/22/02
Loc: Maryland, USA
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I'd be neat to see a video of that encounter! However, I'm more curious to see the results of the F-15 vs. SU-30 fights that happened earlier this month as part of a training program with India.
_________________________
You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
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#182017 - 02/27/04 02:34 PM
Re: F-15 v Eurofighter encounter
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Member
Registered: 02/15/01
Loc: NC USA
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Just one question:
If they were wanting to attempt to set a new air superiority benchmark... why were they using F-15Es?
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