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#1392281 - 09/02/04 09:23 AM Re: The Death of the Flight Simulation Genre
FlyXwire Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 1080
Loc: St.Charles, Missouri U.S.A.
Well pardon my French, but I must again assert:

L'art d'etre ennuyeux, c'est de tout dire.

(The art of being boring is to tell all.)

There can come a point in any lengthy conversation when it no longer resembles true discussion, and that point was reached in this thread days ago.

There have been many interesting points presented in this thread, and this will hopefully be the lessons learned from the endeavor.

Presenting your original ideas has been much appreciated Wall-dog!

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#1392282 - 09/02/04 10:39 AM Re: The Death of the Flight Simulation Genre
Anonymous
Unregistered


S! FlyXwire!

You are correct. We are at this point arguing for the sake of argumentation.

'Nuff said!

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#1392283 - 09/02/04 01:40 PM Re: The Death of the Flight Simulation Genre
Tailgunner Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 677
Loc: UK
Would that be just the 3 minute argument, or the full half hour ;\)
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#1392284 - 09/02/04 05:55 PM Re: The Death of the Flight Simulation Genre
Anonymous
Unregistered


We are at this point arguing for the sake of argumentation.

Agreed.


Okay WallDog, how does one play offline without internet connection with real human opponents?

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#1392285 - 09/02/04 09:13 PM Re: The Death of the Flight Simulation Genre
Anonymous
Unregistered


S! Walldog!

WallDog::
Quote:
I think the 'Massive Multiplayer Online War' concept represents the future of combat sims in general. It's tough to do a 'war' with a first-person shooter though. Even games like Joint Operations don't really have the feel of a real war. For that you need a real front line with missions that are created to impact the front and thus the war. Nobody has done that yet, but that is the direction I think things are heading.
Okay! now this is worthy of investing in.

Is this similar to TargetWare online war simming? Don't know much about TargetWare, but I may sign up when (and if) I upgrade this autumn. Just found this...and I thought it was to be played *only* on their servers--I was wrong and it reminds me of WallDog's posting that his/her idea of a sim can be played on a LAN...

Quote:
Introduction to the Targetware Flight Sim Environment
An Engine for Community-Developed Flight Sims

The Targetware Engine has been created with the goal of allowing the community of players to modify and change most things in the game including 3D Plane models, flight models, weapons, scenarios, campaigns, terrain, and buildings.

The engine itself is the base program (Targetware) and associated files. It is independent of the data modules (or 'mods'), such as Target Korea and Target Rabaul. To operate, the Targetware engine must have a data module installed. Without data installed, the sim won't operate.

Targetware is both a client and a server, enabling each player to host his own game with as many as 250 players. Server hosts can choose what options they wish to enable for their game, including what planes and scenarios are available.

Player-created material can be submitted for quality validation and official certification by Targetware staff. These officially sanctioned (and digitally signed) planes can then be used on Targetware official corporate servers, or on players' servers worldwide. Players are also able to certify (and digitally sign) their own personally designed aircraft, 3-D models and terrains for use on their servers and to share with others. At the same time, other players have the power to accept or reject these modifications, and maintain control over the environment they are providing.

The Targetware staff will continue to provide function and feature enhancements to the core engine, as well as new aircraft, terrains and other resources. However, we believe that the majority of new planes, flight models, cockpits, terrains, ground objects, personalized skins, etc., will be designed by the community at large.

With an open approach to graphics, flight models, terrains and even servers, Targetware combines extensibility and customization with a high-fidelity simulator that insures that everyone is playing by the same rules.

Scenarios and Campaigns
Targetware scenarios are an easy way to create exciting combat situations. With a simple text editor, they can be created or modified. These scenarios enable much of the tedium of flight to be avoided because players can begin in-flight. As soon as the scenario is won by either side, the next scenario begins, much like popular multiplayer first-person shooters, such as Counter-Strike.

Scenarios can be arranged into a branching tree that creates a small campaign, in which the outcome of one scenario determines which scenario will begin next. "Furball" style scenarios can also be developed, of course. Targetware gives you the tools, but you decide what to do with them.

For more information, please refer to the Targetware Developer's Guide.

~ http://www.targetware.net/documentation/tw_about.html

This is clearly written language that I understand. And it is very attractive.


WallDog [page 2]::
Quote:
Why doesn't anyone buy flight sims anymore? Because they are no longer fun.
Apologies for making so much fun WallDog, but its that type of webboard claim I find very false, and also the claims that offline simming has no future. Granted offline simming may not provide profit for your online war sim. That I also understand--and am wondering if that is why you make such claims. If you program and market well, you may attract offline simmers like TargetWare is attracting me now. Telling offline simmers they don't have fun is not the best marketing strategy.

Now, does anybody know how much a package of TargetWare will cost when it is finished, a package that, if I read TargetWare's statement correctly, can be set up on one's own server? Is this what WallDog means by massively ramping the price of flight sims? I was earlier thinking that I would accept higher flight sim prices if the developers put more programming into offline AI and battlefield environments that offer "a real front line with missions that are created to impact the front and thus the war." (not just dogfighter AI) This online server would also be worth the extra cost if it offers...

WallDog::
Quote:
...a real front line with missions that are created to impact the front and thus the war.
Sold! WallDog! \:\)

(S! means Sold!)


The most interesting thing is that both online and offline share about 95% (guess) of the game code and 100% of the modelling. There will be markets for both online and offline simming. Perhaps the best products will offer both. This begins to make sense.

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#1392286 - 09/02/04 09:34 PM Re: The Death of the Flight Simulation Genre
Anonymous
Unregistered


Now....not trying to say TargetWare is "as good" or "better" than WallDog's idea. It may be, or may not. For one thing, TargeWare has no AI aircraft and apparently never will, but WallDog will allow the option of AI in his/her online war to flesh out the ranks if needed or desired, as he/she stated earlier. Thus WallDog's idea is the more advanced at least in this one area. And its an area very important to me.

WallDog for this to succeed with human opponents you need to make AI see clouds, lose at least some vision at dusk/dawn and even more loss at night. AI must be blinded by the sun. WallDog you can be the *first* to do all these together in one sim if you want. More programming efforts are needed than we have seen in many flight sims past.

And if we don't make fun, WallDog may allow Mods to create pure offline simming with the best AI ever made (at a profitable price of course).

Sold!

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