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#1056882 - 08/17/02 08:37 PM Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Anonymous
Unregistered

has anyone made any skins or mods for these planes. they are carrier-based aircraft designed for use on the Graf Zeppelin. i was just wonder if anyone has any info on them. the only info i have is out of a book called the Graf Zeppelin. theres a cool pic of a Ju 87 with folded wings in this book.


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#1056883 - 08/17/02 10:13 PM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Anonymous
Unregistered

I believe there is a Bf 109T at Aces Over Gyn. Take a look at Sandbagger's for a link.

I don't think anyone did a Ju 87C.

------------------
Rafael Almeida e Andrade
rafaelalandrade@hotmail.com


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#1056884 - 08/17/02 10:36 PM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Col. Gibbon Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Loc: Fleet, Hampshire, England.
Hi guys.

I found a couple of pics of it. I never heard about this version.



_________________________
Wings Over Bytom

At home, with my loving wife Kasia and children, Thomas, Jessica & little Nicola. \:\)

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#1056885 - 08/17/02 11:25 PM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Anonymous
Unregistered

hey those are the same pics from my book. any good web sites about these planes?

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#1056886 - 08/17/02 11:32 PM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Anonymous
Unregistered

i checked out the me 109 T at Aces(extended wings and all). very cool, now we just need the Ju 87 C and then if we pray hard, some nice person may make us the Graf Zeppelin.

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#1056887 - 08/18/02 12:32 AM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Moggy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/00
Loc: A slit trench near RAF Gravese...
... and the Peter Strasser, and the Seydlitz the other planned fleet carriers.



Moggy
_________________________
RAF Chattenden Dunkirk-Midway-1940 Attack in the West-Iraq 1941
The Gen Blogging WWII News

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#1056888 - 08/18/02 02:15 AM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Hehe, that torpedo looks fine!

------------------
Rafael Almeida e Andrade
rafaelalandrade@hotmail.com

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#1056889 - 08/18/02 07:21 AM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Col. Gibbon Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Loc: Fleet, Hampshire, England.
Hi all!

I found this potted history of these planes, and a few more pics. These are some very interesting planes!

German Carrier-Based Aircraft
Bf 109T, Ju 87C, and Me 155

Yes, there was a carrier-based version of the Bf 109. It was designated Bf 109T, and was intended to be based aboard the Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier. There was also a carrier-based version of the Ju 87 dive bomber.
During the late 1930s, the aircraft carrier was a serious part of German naval planning. In February 1939, Admiral Erich Raeder proposed that two aircraft carriers (named Graf Zeppelin and Peter Strasser) be laid down. These carriers were to be equipped with specialized carrier-based versions of the Bf-109E fighter and the Junkers Ju 87B dive-bomber. Construction on the first German aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin, was initiated immediately.

Messerschmitt's proposal for a shipboard fighter was designated Bf 109T (T for "Trager"). It was basically a Bf 109E-1 with a larger wing, an attachment point for catapult points underneath the fuselage, and an arrester hook underneath the aft fuselage. A breakpoint was incorporated in the wing spar outboard of the gun bays to permit manual folding of the wings. However, the wing folding process was complicated by the need to detach the flaps prior to folding. The landing gear still retracted outwards, but the undercarriage legs were made stronger in order to accommodate the faster sink rates involved in carrier landings. Armament was to consist of two fuselage-mounted 7.9-mm MG 17 machine guns and either two MG-17 machine guns or two 20-mm MG-FF cannon in the wings. The engine was the Daimler Benz DB 601A.

Since the Messerschmitt A.G. was fully occupied with Bf 109 and Bf 110 production, responsibility for the Bf 109T project was assigned to the Fieseler Werke. Ten Bf 109E-1s were to be converted to Bf 109T-0 configuration for service test, and 60 Bf 109T-1 fighters were to be built from scratch. The Bf 109T-0s were ready for evaluation during the winter of 1939-40.

When the war in Europe began, the Graf Zeppelin was about 85 percent complete, and most of her machinery had been installed. However, work on the Graf Zeppelin was suspended in October 1939 due to a change in German naval thinking. It was deemed that the operation of a single aircraft carrier within range of enemy land bases was impractical, and all work on the Graf Zeppelin was halted in May of 1940. Assembly of the 60 Bf 109T-1 fighters was also halted at the same time.

However, the successes of British carrier-based aircraft against the Italian Navy late in 1940 rekindled German interest in ships of this type, and the Fieseler Werke was instructed to complete the 60 Bf 109T-1s then under construction but to remove the naval equipment and deliver them as land-based fighter bombers suitable for operation from short strips.

Stripped of naval equipment and fitted with a rack for a 66 Imp gal drop tank, 4 110-lb bombs, or a single 551-lb bomb, the planes were redesignated Bf 109T-2. It was concluded that the Bf 109T-2 would be ideal for operation from small, exposed airstrips such as those from which the Jagdflieger were forced to operate in Norway. Several units operated with the Bf 109T-2 in Norway. However, it never operated in its intended shipboard role. The short-field performance of the Bf 109T lead to surviving Norwegian-based Bf 109T-2s to be based on the tiny fortified island of Heligoland in 1943. The last of the Bf 109T-2s disappeared from the inventory at the end of 1944.

In March of 1942, British carrier-based aircraft were able to drive the battleship Tirpitz away from two Allied convoys on the Murmansk run, and Admiral Raeder insisted that aircraft carriers would be absolutely necessary in the future to protect commerce raiders from enemy air attacks. On May 13, 1942, orders were given that construction on the Graf Zeppelin be resumed, and that it should carry an air group of 28 bombers and 12 fighters. However, by this time, the Bf 109T was considered obsolescent for shipboard operations, and proposals were solicited for new carrier-based fighters.

The Messerschmitt company submitted the Me 155, which was basically a navalized Bf 109G. It had a fuselage basically similar to that of the standard Bf 109G, but with an entirely new wing. The undercarriage retracted inwards into wing wells, providing the wider track required for safe carrier landings. Standard naval equipment such as folding wings, catapult spools, and arrester hooks were fitted. The powerplant was a 1475 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 liquid-cooled engine. Armament was to be one engine-mounted 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 13-mm MG 131 machine guns in the wings. Estimated maximum speed was 403 mph.

Detailed design of the Me 155 was completed by September of 1942. However, the numerous delays in the construction of the Graf Zeppelin seemed to indicate that the launching of the aircraft carrier would be at least two years away. Messerschmitt was told to shelve the Me 155 project for the indefinite future. In the event, the Graf Zeppelin was never completed, the German navy deciding to concentrate fully on submarine manufacture.

The Me 155 project was to evolve into a design for a single-seat bomber, then into a high-altitude interceptor. In August 1943, the project was transferred to Blohm und Voss and was redesignated BV 155. It went through numerous changes in design, and was still under test when the war came to an end. In June of this year, I posted an article in sci.military with some more details about the BV 155.

There was also a carrier-based version of the Stuka dive bomber. The navalized version of the Stuka intended for service aboard the Graf Zeppelin was designated Ju 87C. It was basically similar to the Ju 87B, but featuring catapult spools, arrester gear, and jettisonable main undercarriage members for emergency landings on water. Flotation equipment was provided, and provisions were made for manually-folded outer wing panels.

The first Ju 87C-0 pre-production aircraft appeared in the summer of 1939, and the definitive shipboard Ju 87C-1 was to have featured an electrically-activated wing folding mechanism and provisions for carrying a single torpedo under the fuselage in the place of the usual bombs.

The Ju 87C-0 pre-production aircraft were issued to units intended for service aboard the Graf Zeppelin. However, the invasion of Poland in September 1939 caused them to be impressed into land-based service. One incident is worthy of note. One of the Ju 87C-0s was damaged by antiaircraft fire while attacking the Polish naval base at Hela, and the pilot jettisoned his landing gear in preparation for an emergency water landing. However, the pilot succeeded in regaining control of his plane, and he was able to regain his base where he made a belly landing. The German propaganda machine used this incident as "evidence" of the high structural integrity of the Stuka. A photograph of this Stuka supposedly flying back to its base with its missing landing gear was widely distributed, the claim being made that the undercarriage had been lost when the airplane flew too close to the water while pulling out of a dive. This photograph was, in fact, a fake.

When work on the Graf Zeppelin was suspended in October 1939, the contract for the production Ju 87C-1s was cancelled, and the aircraft on the production line were completed as Ju 87B-2s.

Source:
Warplanes of the Third Reich, William Green, Doubleday, 1970

Joe Baugher


This a pic of the Me155/Blohm und Voss as the Bv 155


Me109T




[This message has been edited by Col. Gibbon (edited 08-18-2002).]
_________________________
Wings Over Bytom

At home, with my loving wife Kasia and children, Thomas, Jessica & little Nicola. \:\)

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#1056890 - 08/18/02 10:56 AM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
sandbagger Offline
Forums Moderator
Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Loc: Coningsby, Lincs, UK
Hi Wulf,
I've just checked out the Aces Over Gyn Futura site for the 109T and only found the news link (not ready for posting yet). Is there more info about this aircraft at the site, as I couldn't find it?

------------------
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sandbagger@btinternet.com

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#1056891 - 08/18/02 01:53 PM Re: Ju87-C and me 109 T skins?
Anonymous
Unregistered

hey sandbagger. its on the main page. it says bf 109T2 kreigsmarine<(spelling wrong?)
i downloaded it saturday. there should be a pic of it on the main site. its grayish with a little flame thingy. i just went to sandbaggers links then to skins, then to skin 1, then to aces over Gyn Futura.

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